EPISODE S.4, E.27

Heather (00:09):
Welcome back to another episode of The BrewDeck Podcast. I am your host, Heather Jerred, joined today by my trusty sidekick, Adam Wilson. How’s it going, Adam?

Adam (00:18):
It’s fantastic. How are you? A sidekick, aye? I like it.

Heather (00:21):
That’s your new title. I think it’s on your new business cards as well.

Adam (00:26):
Sweet.

Heather (00:28):
Well, we are wrapping up 2023. We are very near to the end of the year. So, as we are watching this year wind down, we really think it’s important that we talk to our customers and inform them about this year’s harvest, both hop and barley, and what everybody can expect for next year.

Adam (00:47):
So, today we’re going to kick it off with a Hop Harvest summary, but don’t forget to stick around because in the next issue we’re going to jump over to the Barley Harvest side, so let’s hop to it.

Cheyenne (01:00):
And before we jump into today’s episode, we want to take a quick moment to highlight this year’s Pink Boot Society Hop Blend. We are joined today by Ashlie Randolph and Georgina Solis of the Pink Boot Society. Ashlie and Georgina, can you introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about your role with the Pink Boot Society?

Ashlie (01:18):
Sure. Should we go alphabetically?

Cheyenne (01:20):
Yeah. Let’s go alphabetically. That makes sense.

Ashlie (01:22):
That’s the former school teacher in me. That’s always my default, “Let’s go alphabetically.”

Cheyenne (01:28):
I love it.

Ashlie (01:31):
Hi everyone. My name is Ashlie Randolph. Wow. My journey with Pink Boots has been really interesting. I actually got my first official gig in this industry, just so I could hang out with all the cool cats at Pink Boots. And went from being a member to being in leadership in our local chapter, here in Las Vegas. And now I am proudly serving as Vice president for all of Pink Boots Society International. In addition to that, I’m very honored to serve on the scholarship committee, with some amazing individuals there. One, maybe we’ll hear from in a minute. And also really proud of the work that we’ve been doing with our DEIJ committee.

Cheyenne (02:10):
Very good.

Ashlie (02:10):
So, it’s all the things, all the time. [inaudible 00:02:14]-

Georgina (02:15):
Okay. So, yeah, I’m Georgina. I usually go by, “Georgie.” And I’ve been on the board of Pink Boots for about three years, but I stepped down recently, to become the interim executive director. And then next year will be the full-time executive director. And I’ve been working very closely with Ashlie on the scholarship team as well. And that is just what really drew me to the organization, were the amazing opportunities that a lot of our members benefit from. And, as she said, I also was a lucky recipient of one of those, a couple of years ago.

Heather (02:46):
That’s amazing. So, obviously, we sell the Pink Boots Hop Blend. And everyone knows that proceeds from the Hop Blend go towards the Pink Boots Society. Can you tell us a little bit about where those proceeds go?

Georgina (03:00):
Sure. Ashlie, you want to take it?

Ashlie (03:04):
… Let’s go reverse alphabetical order, this time.

Georgina (03:07):
Oh. How convenient. Yeah, so the proceeds go to mostly our scholarships. And we partner with a lot of industry leaders. We do Cicerone, White Labs. The one that I received was through Deliria, to go brew Deliria in Belgium. And it was-

Heather (03:26):
Oh. That sounds terrible.

Georgina (03:28):
… It was the worst. No. It was absolutely the most incredible experience that I’d had in this industry, at that point. Traveling to Belgium, and then just, of course, checking out… Going to Brussels, going to Gant. And then spending the day brewing Deliria. It was just one of those, where I was already very passionate about the scholarships. And, if anything, it just pushed me further, to say, “This is what we’re about.” But that’s what we do every quarter, we offer quite a few scholarships to our members and we have a review team, and it’s a very rewarding experience.

Heather (04:02):
That’s really cool.

Ashlie (04:03):
And being in a position, where I kind of jumped in headfirst, with leadership opportunities at Pink Boots, I have yet to have the experience of having a Pink Boots scholarship opportunity. But every time we get new scholarships, I come up, I’m like, “Oh my gosh. This is so amazing. I never knew that this opportunity was out there.” And what I am really excited about is it’s not just technical scholarships that we’re offering, but, I mean, we’ve had scholarships in marketing, leadership development, so all of these things that it really takes for an individual who identifies as being a woman or a non-binary individual to be their best selves in this community and contribute all that they can, while in this industry, it’s just an absolute pleasure to facilitate these opportunities.

(04:54)
And one of the things that I also really love about our scholarships, it’s not just a situation of, “We’re investing in you. And go be great, learn all these amazing things and have a good life.” It’s, “No. We’re investing in you with the expectation that you’re going to turn around and literally Pay it Forward,” so we do have a Pay it Forward component and it’s like I get to live vicariously through our scholarship recipients, when they give us their presentations and put all these amazing photos in there and tell us about their new best friend that they met on these experiences, or seeing how they’re able to distill, no pun intended, what they want to come back to their chapter-

Cheyenne (05:30):
That a girl.

Ashlie (05:31):
… so it’s not just one person going and having that experience. They’re literally coming back and enriching their micro-community, at their local chapter level. But, then, we do have some scholarship recipients for like, “Hey. I want to present this to every single Pink Foods member out there,” so it’s just a really awesome experience. And thanks to our allied trade partners and people in the industry who believe in what our mission is, we’re able to continue enriching people’s lives and careers, through these avenues, so super proud to be a part of it.

Heather (06:03):
Yeah. I really like the Pay it Forward Program. I’ve actually sat in a few presentations that some of the women, their members, have done, after they’ve received some of their scholarships. It’s such a really cool program. Well, Ashlie and Georgie, thank you so much for coming on and giving us a really quick overview of what these funds do for the Pink Boot Society. Anybody that’s listening, make sure you contact your Country Malt Group rep or your Yakima Chief rep, to pre-order the Hop Blend. There is limited quantities available this year. We are now joined by actually somebody who’s not a stranger to the BrewDeck podcast, because I think this is the third time that we have got Joe on. So this is Joe Catron, director of grower services for Yakima Chief Ranches. Welcome, Joe.

Joe (06:51):
All right. Thanks, Heather. Good to talk to you again. Hello, Adam.

Adam (06:55):
Hello, sir. Thanks for coming on today.

Joe (06:57):
Absolutely. Glad to join.

Heather (07:00):
For anybody that hasn’t got to hear your history before, because I know that we have done it before, but let’s hear all about it again. How’d you get into the industry and what exactly do you do with Yakima Chief Ranches?

Joe (07:12):
Sure. Yeah. I’m one of the lucky ones, I suppose, that didn’t come from a multi-generational hop farm. I am born and raised in Yakima, so definitely been around agriculture my whole life. And then, post-college and post a little bit of living in a van for a few years, with my band, and traveling the country, I decided to settle down, back where I came from. Had the opportunity to start as an intern for Yakima Chief Ranches. And, now, in the last 11 years, I’ve worn a lot of hats within our breeding program and in our agronomy team.

(07:56)
I also do a little crossover work with our team at Yakima Chief Hops and when it comes to marketing and sales of hops. So, yeah, one of the fortunate ones that has been able to carve out a career in the hop industry. I count myself as very fortunate to do so. I love the farming aspect and the plants, but, also, just passionate about the beer and our brewing customers. And, yeah, just, I’ll tell anybody that’ll listen, “I’ve got the best job in the world,” and I’ll argue that until the cows come home.

Heather (08:33):
So, you’re not living in a van anymore, just to clarify?

Joe (08:36):
I don’t live in a van anymore?

Heather (08:38):
But the band is still a thing? Because I feel like I saw the band play.

Joe (08:43):
Yeah. Yeah. We’re all old and domesticated now, but we had a good run there, released a couple albums. And now we keep it trimmed down to maybe eight or 10 shows a year, where we can all get together. But, yeah, still the same guys, same band, and we’re just a little bit older and grayer and a little bit more calmed down than the touring days. But, yeah, still love to play music, as often as possible, and love those guys, like brothers.

Adam (09:15):
Well, for those of us who don’t know, what is the name of your band?

Joe (09:18):
Yeah. The band is called Cody BB and The Crooks. We play a kind of eclectic blend of, I guess, Americana, kind of roots rock. To explain it, like country boys that went to college type of music, so we’ve got that strong-

Heather (09:37):
That’s a good genre.

Joe (09:38):
… the strong base of the ’90s country and classic rock that we were all raised on. And then we have kind of expanded our perspectives on the world, as we’ve grown older and become more educated. So, yeah. I don’t know. It’s fun music to play and we just enjoy each other’s company and enjoy the creative process of writing music together. And it just allows that creative outlet for us, that is super important and enriching for all of us and our families.

Heather (10:13):
That’s so much fun.

Joe (10:13):
Great, Joe.

Heather (10:16):
Well, I guess we should probably get into what we actually came here to talk about, because I think we talked a ton about music, before we even started recording as well. Let’s just start with the basics. How was this year’s hop harvest?

Joe (10:29):
Yeah. The whole growing season of ’23 was fairly unique. I guess, every year is a little different. The last few years, we’ve had quite a bit of pretty intense heat events that didn’t make being outside and growing crops very enjoyable. 2023, contrarily, was beautiful. We had a really consistent nice heat during the growing season, without getting too extreme. The one kind of strange part about the weather for this growing season was the spring. So, we had a really extended cool and wet spring, compared to average, and that definitely made impacts on yield, specifically with a lot of the earlier varieties. So, say, like Centennial, Simcoe, some of those other earlier varieties were really knocked back yield wise. And that was really due to that springtime.

(11:30)
So, on any given year, the rhizome, so the perennial part of the hot plant, below ground, will lay dormant through the winter months. And then spring out of the soil, that following spring. This year, because of the extended cool and wet spring, the soil didn’t warm up, as quickly as it normally did. The plants didn’t emerge, as early as they normally do. And so, we had this long kind of cold spring and the plants were really sluggish getting out of the ground.

(12:04)
And then we had one weekend in June, where it got pretty hot, just for three or four days, and then cooled off again. And that really triggered, what we call an industry, a split bloom. So you’ve got, on any normal year, you’ve got a really consistent vegetative growth for those hops. So, once the chutes emerge and you get them trained onto the strings, you’re really pushing those plants along, to get them to the top of the trellis, prior to setting bloom. So, there’s two very distinct phases of that growth for a hop plan, and it starts with that vegetative growth. And then, when the days start to shorten, after the summer solstice, that’s what triggers the hop to convert all of its energy from vegetative growth into reproductive growth, so basically setting cones and starting to put all their energy toward developing those cones.

(12:55)
So, this year was a little bit disjointed, in that sense, where we had a long cold spring. The earlier crops were kind of tricked into blooming, way earlier than they normally do. And so, we had basically a split bloom, where you’ve got several different phases of cone development, all on the same plant. And it makes harvest kind of a nightmare for the growers. They’re kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place a little bit, where you’re trying to determine when to go harvest that plant, to get your maximum yield.

(13:29)
So, a lot of the early stuff, Simcoe, specifically, Centennial, specifically, a lot of those earlier varieties were knocked down on yield, quite a bit. That springtime, the cold spring didn’t have as much of an impact on the mid to late varieties. So, like Citra, Mosaic, Equinox. Some of the later varieties really got back up to right around average, if not a little bit over average yields, for the season.

(14:00)
Overall, though, really, the growing season was fantastic. I mean, we stay in close contact, obviously, with our entire grower network. And there was several growers that were reporting 50% to 75% fewer inputs. So, fungicide, miticides, just way fewer pest and disease pressure that we’ve seen in the past five to 10 years. So, overall, that’s a win-win-win for everyone.

Heather (14:30):
Yeah.

Joe (14:31):
Fewer inputs on the farm, fewer chemical compounds being applied to the plants. And just, it benefits everyone in the whole supply chain, if we can reduce or even get close to eliminating the use of fungicides and the acaricides, that would be a huge boon for everyone in the industry.

Adam (14:49):
[inaudible 00:14:51]-

Heather (14:52):
[inaudible 00:14:52]. Oh. Sorry.

Adam (14:53):
… Sorry to jump over you there, Heather. Question about the yields, there, Joe. The, especially Centennial and Simcoe.

Joe (15:01):
Mm-hmm.

Adam (15:02):
Number one, how much were those yields down than normal and what effect does that have going into market?

Joe (15:10):
Yeah. That’s a good question. So, with Simcoe, specifically, we like to see any of our aroma cultivars, Citra, Mosaic, Simcoe, any of the newer releases out of our breeding program, we really like to see kind of that floor of about 10 bales per acre. So, that’s kind of how we measure it in the hop growing industry, is bales per acre, so, “How many 200 pound bales of dried hops are we getting per acre?” So, if we can get 10 bales per acre, that’s 2000 pounds of dried hops per acre.

(15:48)
And that’s kind of like where we would like to see a lot of our aroma varieties land, is that, at least 10 bales and up. It’s much different for alpha varieties, which can be double that. But, for the economics to work, for aroma varieties, we like to have about that 10 bale per acre, mark.

(16:08)
And so, this year, for Simcoe, it was actually closer to maybe seven, eight bales per acre. And that’s an average. So, there was several farms that were less than that. Centennial was even worse. There was a lot of reports of three to four bale per acre, Centennial yards, which makes it really tough for the grower to cover their cost of production. If you’re raising a 40 acre block of hops and you’re having the same number of sprays and the same number of fertility, the same amount of fertility, you’ve got these baked-in costs, just for the cost of production. If you’re not getting high enough yields and basically growers are not going to be clamoring to grow those particular cultivars.

(17:03)
So, it’s a huge, huge thrust for us in our breeding program, not just focusing on, “Hey. What’s the next big aroma variety?” But really focusing on potential replacements for some of those old hops, maybe some of the old public C-variety, Centennial, Cascade, those type of hops, that obviously have proven that they can make great beer. Centennial is fantastic. And I don’t know many brewers that don’t love Centennial, but it’s kind of a pain in the butt to grow. I mean, it’s susceptible to a lot of disease. The yields are extremely variable. A lot of times, you’ll have to go through and do second and third trainings of Centennial. So, once you get the bines trained onto the string, a lot of times, they’ll lose their train and kind of fall off the string. And it’s just more and more inputs.

(17:58)
And so, for varieties like Centennial and other older varieties, a lot of what we’re focusing on in the breeding program now is Centennial-type hops that are agronomically superior. So, for example, for us, it’s HBC 638, a really nice hop. It yields 14, 15 bales per acre. And has a lot of those similar compounds as Centennial, that impact beer in the same way. So, yeah, Centennial, for our listeners out there that are big Centennial users, it might be kind of a tight year, going forward, in ’24, so something to keep in front of mind, if you’re a Centennial user.

Heather (18:46):
Might I suggest contracting?

Joe (18:49):
Absolutely.

Heather (18:50):
Yeah.

Joe (18:53):
Yeah. Yeah. Heather, you’re right on, there. It’s just, it provides more transparency and provides more clarity for everyone. I understand the issues that some folks, especially smaller breweries, that are maybe just getting started, or smaller breweries that just aren’t producing as many barrels of beer, per year, contracting, for them, may not make sense.

(19:22)
But, in the whole scheme of things, the more acres, the more, I guess, volumes that we can get contracted, really informs the supply side. So, if we have a really good idea of how many hops and how many pounds of each variety are being demanded in the market, that helps us really get to the point, where we have that industry-wide sustainability, where there’s not any excess production, there’s no brewers that are being shorted on any of their expected deliveries. And allows us to kind of find that equilibrium and truly have a sustainable supply-and-demand market with our brewing customers.

Heather (20:02):
Mm-hmm. Reach out to somebody at YCH. Reach out to somebody at Country Malt Group. We can walk you through all of your hop contracting needs, woes, questions, all of those things.

Joe (20:13):
Absolutely, Heather. And it’s not lost, on our side of things, either. We understand that the market is a little bit out of whack, right now. There’s a lot of brewing customers that are long on hops.

Heather (20:26):
Mm-hmm.

Joe (20:28):
And so, I know our sales team on the YCH side, and I’m sure on the CMG side, as well, are actively engaging with all of our customers and trying to find suitable solutions for everyone, that allows them to continue making great beer, stay in business, not get too out of whack on their hops. And so, there’s flexibility, there’s options, there.

Heather (20:55):
Mm-hmm.

Joe (20:56):
And it’s worth having conversations with your sales reps and seeing what we can do to help out. And make sure that-

Heather (21:05):
Absolutely.

Joe (21:06):
… yeah, people are being taken care of.

Heather (21:07):
Yeah. 100%. All right. We covered a bunch on yields. Can you tell me what the quality was looking like this year?

Joe (21:15):
That was probably the best part about the whole year. Overall, quality was exceptional. And, I mentioned earlier, a little bit about the kind of real consistent nice weather patterns. And, typically, if we’ve got, in a regular growing year, the main pest and disease that we battle in hot production are, on the insect side, it’s two-spotted spider mites, aphids, other piercing, sucking insects that are vectors of disease. Specifically, though, mites can really flare up when it gets hot. And if you don’t stay ahead of those, the populations can really get out of control, quickly.

(22:01)
And then our other kind of main disease pressure are mildew, so powdery and downy mildews. A lot of times those are bigger issues in the spring, where it’s a little bit wetter, a little bit cooler, and favorable conditions for the mildew to spread and sporulate. So, this year, like I said, we had a couple isolated incidents of some powdery and downy mildew. Really, mostly in Oregon, a little bit in Washington, a little bit in Idaho. But growers were able to keep that under control.

(22:37)
And then with the growing season not really being extremely hot, we didn’t really see a whole lot of mite issues, until a little bit later in the season. There was couple isolated mite [inaudible 00:22:52] flareups, in Washington and Idaho, specifically, later in the season, but nothing that got to the point of damaging the quality of the crop. So, really, I mean, you saw a lot of extremely green, beautiful-looking hops that didn’t require the number of sprays that they typically do.

(23:14)
And, overall, just what I’ve seen, as far as our data collection when it comes to selections and sensory analysis of the hops, the aromatics have just been exceptional as well. So, overall, we’re extremely happy with the quality of all of our brands. And I think most growers would echo that, even outside of the brands that come out of our breeding program and all the public varieties were really nice as well. So, for customers out there, I think crop year ’23 is going to be a good one to get some volumes of, if you’re so inclined. So, quality was exceptional. It was one of the best growing seasons that I’ve experienced, in the past decade. And I think brewers will be very happy with the quality.

Adam (24:06):
That’s nice to hear. You know? You hear so much on the other side of it, especially over the last couple of years, with harvest, mostly on our side, on the malt side. And then, in hops, things have been, just it’s been rough, so it’s nice to hear a one coming through as good as this year. I want to take a step back. We were just talking about experimental hops. Can you give us a breakdown on what’s the life cycle to get a new hop?

Joe (24:36):
Mm-hmm.

Adam (24:37):
You know? The idea of it to it being all of a sudden a commercial hop? And how does that all play out? And how do you guys decide what goes into market, what doesn’t go into market, that kind of thing?

Joe (24:51):
Sure. Yeah. That’s a good question. Some people might be surprised to hear that it’s actually about a decade-long process. So, starting from the start, hops are dioecious, so there’s male and female individuals. That makes classical breeding very accessible for us. So, we have a whole dedicated, isolated nursery of male plants. Male hop plants don’t produce hop cones, as we know them. They produce pollen. And so, their flower structure is very different.

(25:28)
Essentially, those pollen sacks will swell and grow and eventually, left to their own devices, rupture and just release that pollen wherever the wind may blow that day. Basically, we will go through and harvest the male flowers. We will collect the pollen from those male plants and we’ll go out and make controlled crosses. We’ll basically go out and use these canvas bags to basically isolate a section of a female plant and ensure that there’s no other wild pollen or anything else getting inside, that would fertilize those cones.

(26:05)
We’ll introduce the pollen that we want to introduce, and then close that porthole up and keep that plant isolated. So, it’ll continue to grow through the growing season, those hop cones will continue to develop, but they’ll be heavily seeded. If a hop cone is fertilized, it will basically be more swollen. The bracts and bracteoles will be enlarged. And you can walk through a field, once you have a trained eye, and really see if there are seeds in hop cones. So, for us, in the breeding program, that’s how we’ll make those crosses.

(26:40)
When it comes to harvest time, we’ll go through and harvest all those seeded cones. And each seed is a genetically unique progeny of that cross. So, we’ll take all of those seeds and germinate them for the following year and they’ll be planted into our seedling plot. So, any given year, we’ve got between 30,000 and 50,000 genetically unique seedlings that we are germinating in the springtime, and then eventually field planting in the late spring. And, in that first year, in the seedling plot, we’re really just… At that point, we don’t even know if they’re male or female plants, so we have to really baby them along and push them along even to get to the point of sexually expressing or blooming. So, but, then, we can differentiate the males from the females, early on.

(27:35)
We’re really not looking for aromatics, at this point. It’s really more agronomics. So, Yakima Chief Ranches, Yakima Chief Hops, we are grower-owned entities, so we are farmer cooperatives and really we’re focusing on the agronomics first. If it makes it through that year of in the seedling plots, then we can basically dig up that crown, that one year plant. We’ll identify it. And then we’ll take all of those female plants that were selected and we’ll plant them in their sibling groups, in our, what we call, single-hill plots. So, at that point, we’re raising those seedlings, which are still one of a kind in the whole world. We’re planting them next to their sisters, in a single-hill. And we’ll raise them there, to full commercial-height trellis, treat them like a commercial crop, and they’ll be there for three full seasons of evaluations.

(28:35)
So, you’ve got, basically, year zero, where we’re making the cross. Year one, in the seedling plots. And then, years two, three, and four, in what we call single-hill plots. And so, that’s really just evaluating, again, mostly agronomics. So, cone set, cone structure, all sorts of different agronomic qualities that we’ll evaluate. And then, at that point, if it makes it through that round of selection, we can then go through in that one plant, still, it’s the only one of its kind in the world. We can take cuttings off of that and propagate out to larger test plots. So, the next three years, or in our seven hill, or advanced lines, really intensive population evaluations of those cultivars, really seeing if they can be quality agronomic crops.

(29:36)
At that point, we will take anecdotal notes on aromas and the different things that are important for brewing, like brewing values and oil content and all those sorts of things. But, really, we’re looking for short-term buy-in, for our growers, and being able to show them that these cultivars would be viable options for them to grow. And then, ultimately, once we get past that threshold and we’ve proven that the plants are good agronomically, that they would be a nice profitable crop for our grower network, that’s when, at that point, is when we go out and start getting in the hands of brewers.

(30:23)
And so, at that point, we’ve got our own internal brewing operations. We’ve got a very elaborate and very awesome sensory program, up at YCH, that helps us fully vet all these varieties. But, really, we don’t want to get into the hands of brewers, quite yet, until we’ve proven that they can be agronomically sustainable. And so, that’s why it seems like a really long process. And it is. But it’s incredibly important for us, as a grower and entity, to ensure that these cultivars are going to be agronomically superior and sustainable. And so, we know brewers are always clamoring for what’s new and looking for different flavor and aroma profiles in their beers. And so, we’re very careful to check all the boxes on the farm side, before we get it into the hands of brewers and gauge the interest, the demand, from our brew brewing customers.

Heather (31:31):
It has to be beneficial for everybody involved?

Joe (31:34):
Yeah. It seems like a long process, but there’s some method to the madness. And, yeah, it’s important to ensure that any new commercial release is going to be something that benefits everyone in our supply chain, from breeders, growers, all the way down to brewers and ultimately craft beer consumers.

Heather (31:54):
So, you mentioned HBC 638. I’ve had the opportunity to sample beers that have that in there. And 586 has been out and about, for a while. Can you tell us how they did this year? And any of the other HBC ones that are kind of new on the market? And how their crops were this year?

Joe (32:13):
Yeah. Absolutely. So, we’ll go 586 first. That is something, as you said, it’s been out in the market. There’s a lot of brewers that absolutely love it. 586 is incredibly impactful in beer. I personally love the flavors and aromas that 586 can provide. And there’s a lot of brewers that really love it. And so, that’s an interesting cultivar, there, where we were poised to release that, as a commercialized brand, right when COVID hit. And decided to pull the reins on that, for a couple of years. Just, the market wasn’t really in a place where there was a bunch of demand. And there was a couple concerns that we had, agronomically, with 586, as well, that we wanted to more fully vet, before we went ahead and released that.

(33:11)
So, this year, we’ve got a couple of our older mature 586 yards that yielded quite nicely, in that 10, 11 bale per acre, level, there. And then we also had a lot of baby plantings of 586 this year. And those baby yards, I failed to mention this earlier, when we were talking about the springtime, but the cold extended spring really was tough on baby plantings this year as well. So, just similar to how you have to wait until Mother’s Day to plant your tomato garden, or your peppers, or whatever, in your personal home garden, it’s similar with baby plantings as well. We’ve got little four-inch pots of those plants, that you really need to wait, until after the last frost, to field plant.

(34:06)
And so, up here, in the Yakima area, we can get overnight frost, certainly, into May, sometimes even into early June. And so, anything that’s planted late, takes a while to take off and really start flourishing. And this year, especially with just the cold soil attempts, the cold wet weather, baby crops, across the board, were nothing to write home about, by any means.

(34:37)
And so, this year was more of just getting plants in the ground, getting them established. Next year will give us a much better indication on overall yields for 586. But things are looking good. And I don’t know if this would be breaking news, necessarily, but definitely 586 is the leader in the clubhouse, right now, as far as imminent commercialization and release of a new brand. So, who knows? Maybe that Vegas trip we were talking about might be a good time to release a new brand, down at CBC.

Heather (35:14):
Ooh.

Joe (35:15):
But we will decide that-

Adam (35:17):
[inaudible 00:35:18] breaking news.

Joe (35:20):
… Yeah. This might be one of those things that we have to edit out [inaudible 00:35:22].

Heather (35:22):
Yeah.

Joe (35:25):
But, no, I mean, a lot of people know that 586 was on the cusp of being commercialized. And then were aware that we pulled the reins on it. So, out in the market, I mean, there’s tons of brewers that are very familiar with it. There’s even been beers named, out there. It’s like, “586, give it a name, IPA.” I’ve seen a few labels where brewers are keen on it, they love the hop, how it performs in beer. And, yeah, it just took us a couple more years, on the farming side, to really fully vet that cult of bar and make sure that it is going to be something viable for our grower network.

(36:02)
So, 586 is definitely that kind of the leader, as far as the next potential branded release. 630. We also have 630. That’s a really nice plant as well. 522. I talked to you about 638 being kind of a Centennial replacement. We’ve got HPC 522, that is kind of floats more in that Cascade type realm. Similar, where it’s disease resistant. A much more consistent yielder than Cascade.

(36:37)
And then you asked about 638, Heather, as well. This is one that we’re pretty excited about, on the grower side. We don’t have several plantings, at several different farms, like we do with 586. HBC 638 is currently only just one yard, planted down at Perrault Farms. But, besides the yield, so this year, HPC 638 was about 15 and a half, almost 16 bales per acre, so huge yields for an aroma variety. They’re extremely robust, big beautiful plants, very consistent yields.

(37:18)
And the other thing about 638, that’s really nice for growers, is it’s a late-harvest hop. So most hop farms have fairly tight restrictions on what they can grow. And it’s really based on what their picking capacity is. If you are on a farm and you can pick 30 acres a day, you have to ensure that you’re able to pick all these brands, at their peak ripeness.

Adam (37:51):
Mm-hmm.

Joe (37:52):
So, for a lot of our commercial varieties, Simcoe has become a lot of farms’ earliest, earliest pick. And then you get into the middle, second week of September, and it seems like everything is ripening, all at the same time. And it becomes very hectic for a lot of growers, between Citra and Mosaic and Cascade and some of those other mid-picks. It gets kind of hectic for growers to ensure that they’re getting all those hops picked, at their peak ripeness.

(38:30)
So, with 638, we don’t pick that until after September 25th, or even later, some years. And it just hangs green and beautiful and is disease resistant and just is a really favorable late-harvest picking window for our growers, that allows them to kind of spread out their obligations, over the entire month of September, as opposed to having everything really bunched up in the middle, there.

Adam (38:56):
Mm-hmm.

Heather (38:58):
Nice. 1019, is this the one that smells like Fuzzy Peaches?

Joe (39:03):
Yes. Yeah. Pretty much, right?

Heather (39:05):
Oh my God. It smells so good.

Joe (39:06):
It smells like Peachie-Os, to me.

Heather (39:08):
Peach rings. Sorry. Not everybody knows Fuzzy Peaches. Those are a Canadian thing. Fuzzy Peaches are a Canadian thing. But, yeah, it smells like a peach candy. It does.

Joe (39:19):
It really does. Yeah.

Heather (39:20):
Yeah.

Joe (39:21):
It’s a cool Hop. 1019. Yeah. This is the first year, where we had some mature yards of that. So, we’ve got three fields of that in the Yakima Valley. And we’ve got a little test plot, actually, down at Jackson Farms in Idaho. But 1019 was beautiful. All the Washington yards were really, really close in yield and aroma. And so, we saw that come in right about that 10 bale an acre mark, which is, like I said earlier, is a benchmark for a minimum yield for what we’re looking for, for aroma varieties. But, yeah, a lot of brewers are really excited about 1019. It punches in beer. It definitely has some of that neomexicanus type aroma profile, that can be a little polarizing for some brewing customers. But those of our customers that have trialed Sabro and may have been turned off by some of the coconutty, woody notes.

(40:26)
Then you’ve got the daughter of Sabro, which is Talus, which I personally really love, it’s huge pink grapefruit and cool herbal notes. And then, along with some of that kind of funky tropical flavors of the neomexicanus lineage. 1019, it floats in there a little bit too. But, as Heather mentioned, it’s very much pointed in that stone fruit, specifically peach, realm. So, something that I think could be not necessarily like a next Citra, where you can just pile five pounds per barrel into your beers, but something that could be used a little bit more sparingly and making up a smaller proportion of your overall hop bill, but definitely providing huge impact for beer. So, 1019, we’re excited about.

(41:09)
And then another kind of newer emerging cultivar is HBC 1134. As we were talking earlier about, kind of older varieties that are more variable in yields, variable in disease resistance. A lot of American brewers and brewers around the world, really, rely on old-world type, more European-style hops, for a lot of their lagers and lighter beers and things like that. HBC 1134 is something that floats in that kind of American noble realm, but yields much better than a lot of those older landrace varieties. We just planted one larger plot of that, this year, up at Loftus ranches, up in Moxee.

(41:59)
We planted that field very late, with pots. And so, we really weren’t expecting much, if anything, as far as production goes, this year. But we ended up getting about six bales per acre, which allows plenty of volume, to do some internal trials and more data collection. But, also, there should be some volumes out there to get out to our brewing customers and help them get acquainted with that cultivar. So, same thing, if we can provide out of our breeding program, create value, and provide brewing customers with a Noble Esque type profile, but with a hop that yields much better and is disease resistant, then, again, that’s a win for everyone in the supply chain.

Adam (42:50):
So, on the other side of things, when you’re looking at the more classic styles of a varietals of hops, which ones are you most excited about from this year’s crop? Which ones performed best?

Joe (43:06):
Man, I love Chinook. I love brewing with Chinook. I like beers with Chinook in it. It tends to make me sneeze, more than other hop varieties, for some reason, but I just love that classic Chinook profile. And I know that a lot of brewers still love using that hop as well. We don’t really have anything in the breeding program that can quite compare to Chinook, at this point. But I think that’s something, that that profile just works in classic West Coast IPAs. And with the reemergence of clear IPAs, again, I see a lot of people using Chinook.

(43:49)
Cascade was okay, quality wise, this year as well. A lot of times you get. With those public varieties that are just open-source, anybody can grow them, we end up having a little bit more variability, just inherently, in quality. With Cascades, some farms, that’s an early pick for them. Some people will push Cascade to maybe the third week in September or even later sometimes. And so, there’s a wider harvest window for a lot of those public varieties.

(44:20)
So, for brewing customers out there listening, it’s incredibly important. I would urge them to get out and form relationships with as many farmers as possible and get to know each farm and their constraints and their abilities, their facilities, their capacities. And learn from them what their portfolio of hops they’re growing. And it just allows them to… And, of course, selections. I mean, if brewers are able to make it out to the Northwest, during harvest, and actually get to do hop rubs and do hop selections, that is just the best way to ensure that each brewer is getting the profiles that they desire for their particular beers.

Heather (45:12):
Great. So, we touched on contracting a little bit. And we also talked about, we do know a lot of people are long on contracts, right now. We know there are some hops on the market that, I don’t want to say old, because they’re not old, by any means, but how does this year’s crop kind of compare to last year and maybe 2021, 2022 crop?

Joe (45:35):
Yeah. I think, like I said, this year, it’s tough to say. I mean despite kind of the weird spring, despite some of the yield issues with some of the earlier varieties, quality was exceptional.

Heather (45:47):
Mm-hmm.

Joe (45:48):
And compared to the last few years, where we’ve unfortunately had some heat events, and then fire events, and we’re learning about smoke taint in hops,

Heather (46:01):
I was going to bring that up. I was like, how were fires in your area? Because I live up in BC, I live in British Columbia, so we were on fire for a good portion of the summer. How were things down for you guys? And did we really see a lot of smoke tank this year?

Joe (46:18):
Unfortunately, a lot of the times, when those fires are burning in BC, we’re at the mercy of the weather patterns. And we’ve had previous years, 2020, 2021, where we were having on all sides, where there was fires in Oregon, there was fires in British Columbia, there were fires in Western Washington, that were all kind of converging. And, unfortunately just the nature of being in a valley, smoke will sink down into the valley.

Heather (46:47):
Mm-hmm.

Joe (46:48):
And there’s been well-documented cases of smoke taint in wine grapes. And it wasn’t something that we necessarily knew was possible in hops, until just the last couple of years, where we’ve had really, unfortunately, bad fire events and bad smoke events that have tainted the hop crop. And so, for especially those harvests, those crop years ’20 and ’21, there was a fair amount of smoke taint in hops, detected. And a lot of that was removed from inventory. And there was even some hops that we would have customers that would get their hop orders and then detect smoke. And then they’d send it back and we’d run it through our sensory program. And if we detected smoke, as well, we’d obviously just replace those hops for those customers.

(47:46)
But, this year, I mean, the crop year ’23, despite the fires in BC, a lot of that smoke stayed up there or even wafted east, as opposed to wafting south. And so, to my knowledge, and just what I observed, I mean, there were a couple days that were kind of hazy, but nothing where it was detrimental to your health to be outside. And I have not heard anything about any smoke tainted hops from crop year ’23. So, a lot of previous years, crops and not everything was affected, right?

(48:21)
I mean, we’ve also found and learned that just the variety of hops themselves play into that. And really it seems to be a cone structure issue, where if you’ve got more loose, loosely formed, more open, flared out type of hop cones, they’re more susceptible to smoke taint. You got something that’s like Citra, where it’s very, very tightly bound, very dense cones, they seem to be less susceptible to picking up smoke tank.

Heather (48:58):
Crazy.

Joe (48:58):
So, like I said, it’s something that we are learning about, on the fly, here.

Heather (49:02):
Mm-hmm.

Joe (49:03):
And, fortunately, ’23, it was not an issue, so we’re grateful for that. I think just the other question too, Heather, I think, going back, I mean, previous crop years are maybe harvested a year or two, prior, but the quality is going to hold up really well. So, once the hops are processed and extract, or pellets, or Cryo Hops, or any other hop product, they’re very stable for several years.

(49:41)
I mean, for T-90s and Cryo, I certainly wouldn’t be nervous about using three or four year old crops, as long as they were handled properly. And then, once they’re used, and make sure you vacuum seal them back closed and make sure they’re not being oxidized. I mean, oxidation is really the main culprit that’s going to be detrimental for the quality and the aroma of hops. So, I know that on our production side, getting it into the nitrogen-flushed Mylar bags really locks in that freshness and keeps it sustainable, until those bags are opened. And then, once it gets into the brewer’s hands and they’re using those hops, it’s important to be good stewards and do what you can to keep those hops from being oxidized. That’s really what’s going to be the most detrimental to aromatics and just the overall quality of the hops.

Heather (50:38):
Yeah. Keep them refrigerated and keep them sealed, and you’ve got a few years to use those.

Joe (50:42):
Absolutely.

Heather (50:44):
Awesome. Anything else that we need to know about the hop crop this year? Anything else that’s super important for all of our customers to know?

Joe (50:55):
Yeah. I think it’s important for all of our customers to understand that we are, and they understand this, too, from their perspectives in running their businesses, but we’re definitely entering a phase of a readjustment. In the last 10 years that I’ve worked in the industry, it’s been a rocket ship. And we have been chasing our tails to keep up with the demand from our growing list of brewing customers, not just domestically, but all around the world. And it has been one heck of a ride.

(51:32)
And we, on the growing side, on the breeding side, have done everything we can to increase production to meet those demands in the market. And now you’ve got this period of time, where obviously COVID affected this in a major way, where you’ve got an industry that’s long.

Heather (51:51):
Yeah.

Joe (51:52):
We’ve got brewing customers that are long, we’ve got merchants that are long. And it’s going to take a collective and concerted effort, by all those stakeholders, to get this market back to a point of equilibrium and something that makes sense for growers and brewers alike. Hops are a unique crop, in that they’re only used for brewing. And brewers are in a unique situation, where they need hops to make their beers delicious and to make them marketable for their customers.

(52:29)
And so, I guess, I would just urge transparency, open dialogue. I’m always willing to talk and answer questions of any brewers that might have issues and have questions. But, now, it’s more important than ever to be good partners and to be open and honest with our struggles and our victories and continue to support each other, to get through this maybe a little bit tough patch that we might be in, here, for the next couple seasons.

(53:09)
But, yeah, I think, overall, like I said, the quality, we couldn’t ask for any better quality from this growing season. But things are going to be a little bit touch-and-go, over the next couple of years, where we’re seeing reductions in acreages. So, contrarily to the last 10 years, where we’ve had more and more acres every year to try to keep up with demand, we’re seeing, in our industry, reductions.

(53:35)
And so, it’s something that brewers out there that have working relationships and have personal relationships with these farmers, be cognizant of that, that it might be a couple lean years, here, for our growers. And to maybe reach out and just check on them, see how they’re doing, and make sure that we’re keeping those lines of communication open. And that we’re doing everything we can, as stakeholders in this awesome industry, to make us sustainable and make sure that we’re able to continue all of our careers, here, and ensure that craft beer drinkers around the world are still able to go out and go to their local craft breweries and buy delicious beers and enjoy those.

(54:25)
So, I think it’s one of those times, where it’s important to make sure there’s people on your mind, there’s farmers, there’s brewers, everybody on the CMG team that’s getting out and getting these hops into market, we need to all be cognizant of the realities and work toward sustainable solutions.

Heather (54:52):
Yeah.

Adam (54:54):
[inaudible 00:54:54]. Good call. I have one last question for you, Joe-

Joe (54:57):
Sure.

Adam (54:58):
… before we wrap things up. I’m sure we could actually go on for another couple episodes, just talking about this stuff. But when can we expect to see the new crop year hit the market?

Joe (55:11):
Yeah. Now. There are powers that be in our production team, up at YCH, that basically they start production season, as soon as they start receiving bales of hops. And so, a lot of times, our planning team up there will have all of those work orders done and they are just chipping away. So, they’re working day and night, right now, two shifts, every single day, all through the holidays, and they should have production wrapped up. So, every bale of hops should be turned into some hop product, by the end of January. So, that said, everything that’s been produced since beginning of September, those volumes would be available in the market, basically right now. And then, like I said, by the end of January, production should be wrapped and crop year ’23 should be fully accessible for all of us.

Heather (56:18):
That’s awesome.

Adam (56:19):
Your logistics guy is going to get mad at you.

Joe (56:24):
Yeah. For putting the pressure on him.

Heather (56:24):
Supply chain’s mad, marketing’s mad.

Joe (56:27):
Right.

Heather (56:28):
Pissing everybody off today.

Joe (56:32):
Well, we got to be honest, right? We got to be honest with ourselves.

Heather (56:36):
Absolutely.

Joe (56:37):
And continuous improvement is a huge pillar of our supply chain. And there was times, like finishing production, by the end of January, was unheard of, a few years ago.

Heather (56:49):
Mm-hmm.

Joe (56:49):
And now it’s expected. It’s a standard at YCH, to have that wrapped up. And so, big kudos to that production team, the planning team, and all the logistics that go into that and making sure that they’re doing the best they can for all those hops.

Heather (57:05):
Oh. That’s spectacular. Joe, thank you for coming on and catching everybody up on the hop crop this year. A little reminder to our listeners, I know we mentioned at the beginning, but presale is happening right now for the Pink Boots Blend, for this year. So, this year it’s going to be while supplies last, so make sure you get to your presale in. Reach out to YCH, reach out to CMG, and we will help you do that. And join us, in a couple of weeks, we are going to be talking about the barley crop for this year.