EPISODE S.5, E.10

Heather (00:09):
Welcome back to another episode of the BrewDeck Podcast. My name is Heather and I am joined by Cheyenne. Hey, Cheyenne.

Cheyenne (00:16):
Hello. How are you doing?

Heather (00:17):
I mean, I’m doing pretty good.

Cheyenne (00:20):
Are you recovered from CBC?

Heather (00:22):
I finally feel rested after CBC.

Cheyenne (00:26):
It took about a week to feel normal after CBC, I will say.

Heather (00:30):
Honestly, it was today I think I fully got my voice back. I think it was-

Cheyenne (00:32):
Like officially a week.

Heather (00:33):
Officially a week, yeah. Lack of sleep and running around all the time. It definitely catches up to you, but it was fun. I had a great time.

Cheyenne (00:45):
Yeah. It was a great time. If you haven’t already, go back and check out our live from CBC episodes. Those were super fun to record. We always have a great time doing that. We get to stand on the trade show floor, hang out with all our friends and interview people. Those are always really fun.

Heather (00:58):
Well, you know you actually get to talk face to face with people, which is not something we ever get to do, so they definitely are some of my favorite ones to do, and I just think all of them are just so great this year.

Cheyenne (01:09):
Yeah, we got a lot of really good guests. Heather, what was your favorite part of last week at CBC?

Heather (01:21):
Of course, I have to say being on the floor and seeing everybody and seeing all my customers-

Cheyenne (01:27):
Seeing all the people?

Heather (01:27):
Getting to meet people from all over, literally all over the world.

Cheyenne (01:32):
It’s always so nice to put faces to names. That’s my favorite part of it is you’ll meet people and you’ll have spoken to them so many times via phone and email, and then getting to put the face to the name is so exciting.

Heather (01:42):
Yeah, it’s awesome. We sponsored the National Black Brewers Association’s Top Takeover at Beer Zombies, and I think that was my favorite night.

Cheyenne (01:53):
That was so fun, and so, so, so busy. They had so many attendees at that event, in a good way.

Heather (02:00):
It was packed in there. Like every room and the patio completely packed.

Cheyenne (02:04):
Yes.

Heather (02:04):
And they had the food trucks going and the beers were amazing.

Cheyenne (02:08):
Amazing.

Heather (02:09):
Yeah, that was a good one.

Cheyenne (02:10):
Beers from all over too, they had 20 plus beers from black-owned brewers, all over the states. I had beers from Florida, all over the states, so that was super exciting.

Heather (02:20):
Yeah, I finally got to try some beer from Crowns and Hops.

Cheyenne (02:23):
Oh yeah.

Heather (02:24):
They’re down in California and we definitely don’t get their beer up here, so that was really, really great. I of course, had to have something from Weathered Souls because Marcus was there, and then I got to try the second rendition of the Black is Beautiful Beer.

Cheyenne (02:40):
Oh yeah.

Heather (02:41):
Did you get to sample that one at all?

Cheyenne (02:43):
I don’t think I got to try that one unfortunately, the line was very deep at the bar, so.

Heather (02:46):
It definitely got deep near the end there. Yeah, so I think that was my favorite. What about you?

Cheyenne (02:54):
I mean, obviously getting to see everyone is always super fun. All the events are awesome, there’s always so things to do when you’re there for the week at CBC. Heather, you were busy doing something else, but I went to, we had a Pink Boots member meet up at Las Vegas Brewing Company, and that was really awesome because you get so used to your own chapters for the Pink Boots Society and all the people that you know, and so it’s always so fun to meet all the folks from other chapters. So the Las Vegas chapter hosted obviously, and so that was super great to get to meet folks.

Heather (03:23):
That’s awesome. Was there a lot of buzz about the Pink Boots malt? Because we had a lot of people at the booth coming to ask about it.

Cheyenne (03:28):
Yes, yes. A lot of us, people are so stoked, people are so excited about it. One of, we did at the booth, we did a giveaway because the Bountiful Bag made a tote bag, which I’m so jealous. I want one so badly.

Heather (03:42):
We weren’t allowed to enter.

Cheyenne (03:44):
We weren’t allowed to enter.

Heather (03:44):
I wanted to enter so badly.

Cheyenne (03:46):
Yeah, me too. And it’s so cool because the bag is just gorgeous and it has all these bright colors and the boot on it, and one of my customers won. Haley emailed me this week. One of my customers won, so I’m very excited about that.

Heather (03:57):
Yay, oh, that’s so exciting, and I’m so jealous.

Cheyenne (04:00):
I know, me too. Hopefully we can convince Bountiful Bag to just make a run of them so we can all get some.

Heather (04:09):
Yeah, that would be amazing.

Cheyenne (04:10):
Yeah.

Heather (04:10):
Well I guess we should amply jump into today’s episode.

Cheyenne (04:15):
Yes, it’s an important one.

Heather (04:16):
It’s a very important episode today. This is going to be the first time we’re touching on this. This kind of got brought up a little bit when we were doing our episode on safety last year actually, and one of the brewers that we were speaking to really brought up mental health and your psychological safety on top of your physical safety. And we kind of decided then and there that we really wanted to ensure that we did an episode this year focusing on psychological safety and mental health awareness for mental health awareness month.

Cheyenne (04:48):
Yeah, May is mental health awareness month, so this is perfect timing. I also think it’s really important on the heels of CBC when everyone is all together and drinking and doing all of those things, it’s important to talk about mental health and burnout and all of that stuff in the craft beverage industry for sure.

Heather (05:05):
Yeah, that’s burnout is such a big factor on your mental health and something that really hits people hard in the craft beverage industry. Also, of course, alcohol consumption, the neglect of your physical health and staffing shortages, which I talk to all my brewers all the time, and it’s definitely something we’re feeling out there all over the place.

Cheyenne (05:24):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Heather (05:26):
So today we are talking with Katie Muggli, the executive director of Infinite Ingredient. Can you tell us a little bit about Infinite Ingredient Cheyenne?

Cheyenne (05:36):
Yeah, definitely. I’m really excited to get to chat with Katie. Infinite Ingredient is working to create a healthier, more sustainable future in which individuals who work in the craft beverage industry can be supported fully and wholly as human beings. They’re providing the opportunity for individuals to flourish and for the community to thrive. They’re a non-profit and their mission is to actively support the mental and physical well-being of individuals working in the craft beverage industry. They focus on outreach, education and access to resources.

Heather (06:08):
Oh, that’s amazing. Let’s jump in.

(06:11)
We are now joined by our guest, Katie Muggli, founder and executive director of Infinite Ingredient. Welcome, Katie.

Katie Muggli (06:20):
Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here with you all today.

Heather (06:24):
We’re so excited to hear everything about Infinite Ingredient. Before we dive into that, can you tell us, well, as you put it, your origin story in the craft brewing industry?

Katie Muggli (06:36):
Yes, absolutely. So I kind of came to craft beer by way of the service industry. So all throughout college, graduate school I served and bartended, and when I moved down to the Twin Cities I worked at several bars and restaurants around town and was part of the service industry here as craft beer was really starting to come up and really starting to, there were all of a sudden there were craft breweries opening. It seemed like every month there was a new one that was coming on deck. And so just really fell in love with it and fell in love with these amazing, my whole world kind of blew up and I was tasting all these new flavors and really just fell in love with the incredible things that were being created here in the Twin Cities, and really wanted to get, I was like, “I want to get into the industry.”

(07:36)
I was part of this subset of it, but wanted to be further involved in beer itself. And in 2016 was hired on by a local brewery as a part-time taproom staff, and that very quickly, just in the craziest way kind of led to doing sales. They asked who on the team, what bars and restaurants that you wanted to see the beer at as we started distributing, and I listed off a handful of bars and restaurants and I was like, “Talk to so-and-so here, talk to so-and-so here,” and then they came back and-

Toby (08:17):
Like, “You’re hired!”

Katie Muggli (08:20):
The what? Yeah, they were-

Toby (08:22):
Yeah they’re like, “You’re hired. Yeah, she’s done. She’s got the job. Go sell.”

Katie Muggli (08:24):
Yeah, they were like, “So seven of the ten first accounts were at your recommendation, do you want to just go out and do this?” And I was like, “Oh my God, that’s a thing? I can do that?” And so it just very naturally progressed from there where it was all of a sudden I was doing sales, and helped build the self-distribution program, helped to do all of these different things, and it all kind of was born out of this experience that I had working in different bars and restaurants. So it was really cool how I didn’t come to sales by way of being a salesperson, I came to it by way of like I love, I got to marry these two things that I loved so much together.

Heather (09:07):
That’s amazing. Mine kind of started the same way too. I feel like it always just starts back in those service industry days, and they plant those really good connections for you moving forward.

Katie Muggli (09:20):
Exactly. And just getting to meet the amount of people that you meet and then get to run into, and it was such a great thing when I first started doing sales and getting to run around town, it was like I had this added bonus of getting to see and work with all these people that I had worked with at all these different places previously. And so it was just the best of all of the worlds where it’s like, “Oh my God, I get to see so-and-so, because they’re over here now,” and there’s a good amount of shuffle across different places, and then new places opening and stuff like that. So it was kind of great, because I got to keep this really amazing group of people that I had met throughout the years together in this way of, just getting to go out on my beer tour every week of like, “Hey, you doing okay? You need another half barrel? What’s up?” And it was such an incredible way to come into that.

Toby (10:20):
That’s awesome. So how did this role, I guess number one, so what is Infinite Ingredient and then how did you come about starting this initiative as I’ll call it?

Katie Muggli (10:34):
So Infinite Ingredient is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit that I founded in spring of 2021. Whose mission is to actively support the mental and physical well-being of individuals working in the craft beverage industry through outreach education and access to resources. So at that time, we were about a year into the COVID shutdown era, it was March of 2021 that I actually was leaving the craft brewing industry. I needed a break. I had been in my role for five years at that point, on premise, I was the on premise manager at the time, and essentially I think it was March 17th of 2020, had to zero out the forecast that I had built from those seven accounts. And it was just such a time. And so I was hired on by a marketing firm and just wanted to take a break from the industry to just kind of reset. And I think there were a lot of people throughout the shutdown era and COVID who are doing the “Holy hell, what just happened?”And the slow blink of like, “What am I doing here?”

(11:51)
And about six weeks later is when Brianne Allen, also known as Ratmagnet on Instagram, had posed that question of, I think it was, “What sexist comments have you experienced,” or “What sexist statements have you experienced?” And with that barrage, I had left, I was gone for six whole weeks and I’m reading all of these horrific things and a lot of them were eerily similar if not essentially reading my same story over and over again as well. And I was just like, there has got to be some way to be able to get resources into people’s hands.

(12:37)
Because having left the industry, I was like, I know it’s not benefits rich. I know that we’re not all rolling in, we’re not Scrooge McDucking in a bunch of cash. We’re not rolling in hella benefits from our employers. And I’m like, there’s got to be a way that we can get resources into people’s hands, because I know I’m not the only one feeling this way. And I know that those accounts that were being shared of some of these really horrific, kind of underbellies of the industry, those were just, everyone’s like, “Oh my God, how can there be so much?” And my reaction to that was like, “Y’all, this is not even the tip of this.”

Heather (13:19):
You haven’t been paying attention.

Katie Muggli (13:21):
Yeah, and just like, this isn’t even all of them. There are people who it’s like will maybe never speak of what happened to them. And I knew that I couldn’t be the only person that was going through and feeling just that level of hurt and frustration and anger and fear and all of these different things. And when you don’t have somewhere to turn or be able to talk to, like resources that you can turn to, it was like this light bulb moment for me where I was like, there has to be a way that we can get resources into people’s hands, and there has to be a way we can do it where it’s not coming from within, trying to individually sell to every single brewery owner like, “Hey, you should have these services available.” Like how do we create something that’s independent that’s kind of like a way that we can prop up and support one another, and support the industry, that’s independent of the houses that we work in and are in the day to day.

(14:36)
So that that way it’s not, oftentimes with resources that are available through work, if you leave that job, that’s not available anymore and that’s its own separate daunting task of trying to find something new, or maybe your therapist isn’t covered by your new insurance or something like that. And so just trying to take into account how can we remove as many barriers as possible to access to tangible resources for people? And just begin conversations in the industry about these really just, I mean these are the tackling of mental health, of wellbeing, of surviving toxic work environments, of self-care, of doing all of these things. These are such difficult topics, and it just kind of really felt like a moment to say, “You know what? We need resources and we also need to start talking about this stuff.” This inflection point needs to be utilized as an opportunity to move forward and do better instead of just watching it pass by.

Cheyenne (15:47):
I’m so glad to hear that you had that exact same thought because I think a lot of, especially women in the industry, but people in general in the industry had that exact same thought at that exact same time a year into shutdowns and watching everything that happened with Ratmagnet I know that I had that exact same reaction of, “Something needs to be done, someone needs to do something.” So I mean, obviously you took it and ran with it and you did do something, which is amazing. Can you give us a breakdown of some of the resources that Infinite Ingredient shares?

Katie Muggli (16:20):
Yeah, absolutely. So right now, so we’re in the midst of our launch campaign. So our eventual goal is to be able to provide access to an employee assistance program, which is essentially just a really robust well of resources that exists for employees to be able to utilize and use. And so we don’t have that available yet, because we have not been fully funded, but what we do have is really exciting. We launched our first actual tangible resource this past January, and we partnered with the amazing folks at the Hazel and Betty Ford Foundation, and we were able to work with them. They were generous enough to donate access to their workplace wellbeing portal, which is really cool. So Hazel and Betty Ford Foundation is really kind of at the forefront of substance use disorder research and really kind of looking into not only serving folks with treatment, but also researching and understanding how that works.

(17:36)
And so a huge thing for us in the industry is we’re surrounded by alcohol. And one of the questions that we want to answer is, how do we demonstrate and live healthy relationships with alcohol when alcohol is our job? And so we partnered with them and the well-being portal is really this incredible and robust tool that anyone, so anyone working for a craft brewery in the United States that makes less than 6 million barrels a year, that’s the Brewers Association definition, has access to this, so they can sign up. Not only those individuals working for those craft breweries, but also their family members. So this goes that one step beyond, it’s not just that roughly 150,000 people working at craft breweries, this is also their family members, right? Because we’re not all these insular beings that only go to work and only come home. We all have our very vibrant fabrics of lives that exist outside of work.

(18:46)
And so this resource covers not only those individuals but families as well. So with that, people can sign up. So we have at InfiniteIngredient.org.wellbeingportal, they can sign up, the access for it is 100% free, and it is just this really incredible and really robust tool. So people can explore help for themselves if they’re feeling like their relationship with alcohol might not necessarily be in the best place, or also a loved one, because something really difficult to watch others go through as well. So you can learn about substance use disorder. They have assessments that are all based on the amazing research that they do to determine if someone is at risk, whether for yourself or someone else. And then you can receive personalized recommendations and connect to resources and services from Hazel and Betty Ford and elsewhere. I think it’s really important to point out that this isn’t just a pipeline for them.

(19:50)
This isn’t like, “Oh, cool, we’ll just get everyone recommendations for here.” They’re really dedicated to supporting holistically, and if there are resources that they have that they can share with folks that makes sense, that’s great, but they are not afraid to point people outside of their organization to be able to access the things that they need as well. So our hope is that this is gonna empower individual employees, families, and just the industry as a whole, to really just utilize and use these amazing things.

(20:30)
And like I said, the Hazel and Betty Ford Foundation was generous enough to donate this launch year, so this is normally something that we’ll have to fundraise for in the future, but they really believe in the mission of what we’re trying to do and what we’re trying to bring to the industry, and make sure that folks know that it’s not this heavy-handed like, “Boo, hiss alcohol is bad.” It’s certainly not. It’s just that it’s something that requires a decent amount of responsibility, and especially when it’s in your day-to-day, as your job requires. That requires a different, just kind of different set of diligence and attention to be paid. So we’re really excited to be able to offer that though. So it’s InfiniteIngredient.org/wellbeingportal is our live resource that we have right now.

Heather (21:31):
That is such an amazing resource. Can you tell us a little bit about some of the other resources you’re looking to have in the future?

Katie Muggli (21:37):
Yeah. And so our hope is, like I said, eventually once we have the funding available, is to be able to provide access to that employee assistance program. So we have a provider, they’re a third party that we are working with that once we have the funding, we’ll be able to provide access to 24/7, 365 master’s level counselors via telephone. It’ll also include up to five counseling sessions with a master’s level counselor. And that’s something that depending on where you’re based can be either in person, virtual or telephone. And that’s kind of up to person’s preference, but this provider has the capability of serving folks in all of those capacities across the country. And the really exciting thing to me, because I’m always just constantly getting ahead of myself is that eventually someday we hope to be able to provide international support in that way as well.

(22:44)
But the amazing thing about those sessions is that it’s not just, oftentimes EAPs, it’s like, “Hey, you get five sessions per year,” and as someone who sees a therapist regularly, five sessions per year is awesome and helpful, but sometimes the issues that we’re trying to tackle aren’t singular. And oftentimes the roots of some of them bleed into some of these other areas in our lives that we’re trying to address as well. So there isn’t an annual limit on the number of issues that’s addressed, which really opens up some really incredible access and availability for being able to continue to utilize those counseling sessions.

(23:30)
There’s also work-life resources that will be available, including information and assistance with adoption, elder and adult care, parenting, child care and disability support. And then there’s really amazing and really robust legal and financial resources, including divorce and custody, budgeting, and sign me up for that one. Estate planning and wills, major life event planning, things like that. And then medical advocacy as well. Speaking of mental health care and all of those things, that’s something that’s really touch and go with its coverage. And just in general, health insurance is just such a tangled hot mess of a web to be caught in. So their medical advocacy resources are really robust as well to help folks be able to navigate in that.

(24:24)
And then also coaching resources. So work-life balance, goal setting, being able to improve relationships. It’s just this really incredible and really robust suite of resources that goes kind of beyond just the, “Hey, I want to sit down and talk to a licensed counselor and hash some things out,” to this really all encompassing, being able to make sure that you’re financially well, and that you are able to set goals in your career and things like that.

(25:01)
So it’s really, I can’t wait for the day that we can start rolling out access because I think it’s going to be a really beautiful thing when we’re able to allow folks access to it and that phone number doesn’t change if they move to a different brewery. That phone number doesn’t change, if I’m in Minnesota, I was just visiting my best friend growing up out in Annapolis for her 40th birthday, and if I were to move out there and be in that area, my access wouldn’t change. And so being able to provide something that is super dependable for folks I think is going to be a really incredible thing. So I’m hoping that that day is soon, but we’ve got some fundraising to do before we get to there.

Toby (25:50):
I think I’ve never really utilized the reaction symbols on the Zoom workplace here. I think I’ve thrown up about four or five hearts and thumbs ups.

Cheyenne (26:00):
Yeah, you’re going off.

Toby (26:02):
This is awesome, Katie. This is really, really great and so happy that you’re doing it. And I think going back to what you said, I think the most important part, and it starts here, is just communication, just talking about it. Part of it is, the industry’s great. We’ve all been there, and I think sometimes mental health, you don’t even know that something’s wrong. You just feel like something’s off, something’s missing. And I’ve been there myself. So, as far as you mentioned some of them, and I could probably name off what they are, what do you think are the main issues affecting people’s mental health in this craft beer industry, or beverage industry?

Katie Muggli (26:44):
Yeah, I think one of the biggest issues that we face is that challenge to have those conversations, first and foremost, right? Because you can’t solve a problem that you’re not willing to admit is there. And so being able to have these conversations, and that’s not an easy thing to do because the industry is, it’s so great and there are so many opportunities and it really is, it’s something that has brought so much into my life, but it also kind of runs the danger, often I think of everything is always great, everything is always awesome, everything is always fun. It’s always the best party that anyone’s ever been to every day of every year of all of the time. And so I think getting through the COVID era, getting through the shutdowns, that’s kind of starting to crack open just in this general way, a little bit more opportunity to talk about mental health.

(27:51)
But I think one of the biggest challenges is you don’t want to be the person who is the downer at the party that everyone else is having fun at. And that I think is really, at least for me, that was such a huge part of it where it was, it felt like I was doing something wrong. And it felt like I was in this insular bubble of like, “Am I messing this up somehow? Or am I doing it wrong by not having as much fun as everyone else?” So I think if we can really start to have those conversations, and then burnout is another one where it’s like, it’s a really fine line between being passionate about your job and being excited about what you’re doing, and also allowing yourself to exist as a person. Because the way I always describe it for where I was when I left the industry was I allowed that Venn diagram of work and Katie to become a circle. And that’s a really scary spot to be in because you don’t know where you start, and where work starts, and where you end, and where work ends.

Heather (29:07):
I feel like COVID was such a big part of that too. I know for me, we were lucky enough to have our jobs through COVID. I was lucky enough to continue working and doing what I’m doing through COVID, but it just became the only thing that I could do. So it became such a huge part of my identity because it was the only thing I was doing. It was the only time I talked to people, and I feel like that was definitely a thing for me.

Katie Muggli (29:29):
Absolutely.

Cheyenne (29:31):
I think this is especially the case for people in the brewing industry. Like you were saying, Katie, there’s so much passion that people have for their jobs in the brewing industry. We do it because we love it, and it’s very hard to see that line and you don’t want to blur those lines and the Venn diagram becomes a circle, like you said. I think that it’s interesting, going back to what you were saying before, that it’s such a fun industry to be in, and you kind of don’t want to be the person who maybe raises their hand and says, “Oh yeah, but actually we need to talk about some things.” You don’t want to be the downer at the party. I’ve definitely felt that many, many times. And so it’s a great place to start the conversation and know that it’s okay to have those conversations.

Katie Muggli (30:15):
And that’s the biggest thing, right? It’s like how do we have these conversations and how do we, my biggest thing is trying to make sure that I just don’t ever want anyone to get to the point that I was at. I don’t ever want, and I want to make sure that, part of it is just the constant retraining of myself. It’s so funny at CBC, I worked with Holly from the Brewer’s Association and we presented this year about having tough conversations around burnout. Like how do you have productive conversations about it instead of, for me, I was very much at this like, oh my God, I just wanted to scream and cry and be like, “I’m burned out!” It’s like, okay, well what is anyone going to do with that, right? That’s not really encouraging anyone to be able to help.

(31:06)
And so being able to have those conversations and being able to just, how do we call attention to it in ways that are helpful and meaningful, and being able to just raise our hand and go, “Hey, you know what? I’m actually, I’m not okay.” And creating those environments because that takes every single one of us who’s involved in the industry to be able to create that environment where it’s okay to say that, where you’re not going to be looked at like, “Oh, well I guess we’ll just replace you because you’re not having fun anymore.” And instead we can go, “Oh my God, I really want to make sure that you can continue doing this thing that you love. And that you can continue growing with this organization and be able to still be a whole human being.” Because if you’re not able to be a whole human being, you’re not going to be putting out your best work anyways.

Cheyenne (32:07):
Definitely. And so while we’re on the topic of burnout, can you tell us about the burnout survey?

Katie Muggli (32:15):
Yeah, I would love to. So in 2022, we did our first ever craft beer burnout survey and we are hoping to do year over year data. So in 2022, we did the first one, in 2023 we did it as well. We generally try and do early year, this year, talk about burnout, just has been a little bit of a ruckus in-

Cheyenne (32:42):
How is it May already?

Katie Muggli (32:43):
So that in and of itself, I just fundamentally don’t understand what time is any more apparently. So there’s also that, because I’m just like, “Oh, okay, cool, we’re here.” Like I was laughing earlier this week that my calendar, I noticed in November, I looked over at my calendar and it was still set to July. So I’m generally running a couple of months behind just on a general front. But the burnout survey, so I’m hoping that we’ll be able to do our 2024 one as well, probably I would say late Q3 if not early Q4, we might switch up the timing on it regardless, so keep an eye out for that and I’ll be happy to share that with you all as well.

(33:28)
But we’re hoping to collect that data. There’s not a ton, and by a ton, I mean even any real data out there about burnout in the industry. And so what we were looking to do is, especially that first one was say, “Okay, the industry, my experience with it, the people that I know and love in the industry have very similar experiences. Is it just a Minnesota thing? Is it this weird, like we’re stuck in an Arctic tundra for half the year and we’re like, we just all need more sunshine or something? What is it? What’s the root of this?” And so we really wanted to be able to dig into and open up, is this something that is industry-wide? And our first, I don’t have the numbers in front of me, so I may be off by a couple, but I think the first year we had 388 respondents from across the US and the data was just staggering.

(34:31)
It was like when it first came back, I was like, “This can’t be real.” And then I was like, “Oh my God,” I’m like, “It is.” For that subset of folks it was, across the three categories as defined by the tool that we utilized to measure was a hundred percent of folks on average were burned out across these three categories.

Cheyenne (35:01):
Wow.

Heather (35:01):
Wow.

Katie Muggli (35:02):
And it was really, it was one of those things where I was like, there’s no way in hell this is real. But at the same time it was just like, “Thank God that this isn’t just me.”

Cheyenne (35:13):
It’s validating, yeah.

Katie Muggli (35:16):
And so in 2023, the preliminary data showed that there was a slight improvement in all of the categories, and actually one of the categories, because there’s kind of a range. So there’s not exhibiting burnout at all, there’s moderate and then there’s severe. And there’s actually one of the three sections that actually graduated from severe into the more moderate.

(35:48)
So all of the numbers are starting to improve, which is really wonderful to see. So I’m really excited to begin to collect continually to see how we’re doing. And part of it too, to keep in mind is, measuring in 2022, that survey went out and it was measured during, I think it was February and March of 2022, that very first one. And so we can’t, since we don’t have data from before the pandemic, we can’t reasonably parse apart what was burnout and fatigue from COVID, or burnout and fatigue in the industry. So I do want to just make sure that kind of call that into the forefront of making sure that in looking at that, that we look at it with the full lens of what was happening at that time.

(36:42)
But I really do hope that the more that we have these conversations, the more that we can normalize, not just in our daily lives but also within the industry especially, having these conversations where we can really get to the point where I would love to see this amazing progression in these numbers that really shows some marked improvement of like, “Hey, we’re doing better, and we’re all healthier and we’re all building more sustainable businesses and relationships and just a more sustainable industry at large because we’re paying attention to these things, and because we’re being cognizant of it.”

(37:30)
Because I think a lot of, and I was part of kind of toeing the like, we need to better, faster, stronger, always building and really just that glorification of we got to do everything at the cost of myself, and everyone around us and on our team. And instead being able to get to a point where we can go, “Hey, you know what? The way that we’re going to be able to build stronger and better than ever is if we’re supporting ourselves, taking care of ourselves, and supporting and taking care of one another.”

Heather (38:07):
That makes sense. How can people in the brewing industry or breweries themselves get involved and help out Infinite Ingredients?

Katie Muggli (38:20):
Yeah, thank you so much for asking that. First and foremost, sharing our message, what we’re doing, what we’re up to, what our mission is. I think creating conversations among yourself, your team, taking time for self-reflection and really taking a look at, where are you at, how are you doing? And being able to take that and then figure out what to do with that. Hey, do I need to bolster these things? Or do I need to maybe ask for some help?

(38:55)
One of the things that I mentioned earlier was the employee assistance program that we’re fundraising for. Being able to, if you have a brewery that does any philanthropic giving or fundraising and things like that, we always are so, so grateful to be able to be benefactors from those sorts of events or brew days or beer sales, things like that. I know that there’s just so many places that are doing really amazing work for their communities. So being able to be considered, we are 501(c)(3) like I mentioned earlier, so all those donations are tax-deductible, and hopefully being able to really bolster that financial end of things will just allow us to continue, hopefully subsequent years, being able to fund the workplace wellbeing portal, and being able to add on additional tangible resources for folks as well.

(39:54)
So we’re available on the social medias, I run all of that stuff and I’m not the most adept at it, just a full stop, Canva’s a really amazing tool, but being able to follow us on there as well is really helpful. So follow us, share what we’re up to, share what we’re doing and donating are really, really the biggest things. And like I said, just taking really good care of yourself and taking really good care of the people around you is going to go so, so far, because everyone really needs just so much, I just think so much extra. It’s been such a, life is just lifing a lot, I think for a lot of people right now. And so being able to do that is really, really helpful as well.

Heather (40:44):
I absolutely agree. Life is lifing a lot.

Cheyenne (40:48):
It is lifing a lot.

Heather (40:48):
It’s lifing a lot.

Cheyenne (40:54):
One thing I will say, Katie, I’m on your website and I’m looking at all the resources and you mentioned all of these, but I think that’s something that is so great that you’re doing. I think for many people we think that wellbeing is kind of the bare minimum of taking care of our mental health, taking care of our physical health. There kind of is a baseline that we think of and your goals for your resources go so far above that, which I think is amazing. And not a lot of people think that they can reach that far ahead. So the coaching resources, the goal setting, that’s a sign that you’re thriving. And I think that that’s amazing that that’s something that you have on the agenda to help take care of people, because we don’t always think about those things when it comes to wellbeing and mental health.

Katie Muggli (41:36):
Absolutely. I mean, it’s always a moving target. There’s never, wellbeing and mental health, every day looks different. Some of the most accomplished days are some of the hardest ones where it’s like, “Oh my God, I took a shower. Like holy damn, I nailed it today.” You know? It’s all about perspective and it’s all about accounting for that, right? Because everyone’s hardest day is going to look different. Everyone’s greatest day is going to look different. And you never know which one it’s going to be sometimes it feels like.

(42:19)
And so that really holistic removing barriers, but also making sure that there is that kind of full spectrum. It’s not just like, “Oh, cool, well got through this one event,” or something happening and then all of a sudden like everything is just great and dandy. It’s constantly in flux. So the more that we can support every little bit of where a person might be at, the more holistic that kind of catch all is, where it’s like if you fall that short distance from maybe not being in a good place, whether you’re there or having the most amazing and incredible month ever, there’s going to be something there for you, and there’s going to be something there to support you, because that and that’s kind of calls back to the name of the organization in general.

(43:26)
The pursuit of wellness is infinite. It changes every day, what your needs are change every day. And so being able to highlight that, understand that, and really give ourselves grace to be able to find whatever that is on any given day is a really important thing.

Heather (43:46):
Well, I have to say, Katie, thank you so much for all that you are doing. This is a lot of work to undertake and it’s just so, so important in this industry. So thank you very much.

Katie Muggli (43:58):
Thank you so much for having me and for allowing me to share what it is we’re up to, and for the support. So I really appreciate it and the more we can have these conversations, the better off we’re all going to be.

Heather (44:15):
Agreed. Thank you so much to Katie for joining us today and sharing with us all about the resources that Infinite Ingredient has to offer. We wanted to share some additional resources with you today. Should you be in a crisis, the text line is there for any crisis, and that can be anything, it can be painful and emotional time, or anytime you just feel like you need support. A live trained crisis counselor will be there where they receive the text and respond, all from secured online platforms. So text HOME to 741741 from anywhere in the United States.

Cheyenne (44:53):
Additionally, if you or someone you know is in crisis, they can call or text 988 or chat via 988lifeline.org. The Lifeline provides 24/7 free and confidential support for people in distress, prevention and crisis resources for you or your loved ones, and best practices for professionals in the United States and Canada. So very important resources, make sure you save those for you or anyone that you might know who needs them.

(45:24)
Switching gears, we wanted to say a huge congrats to all of the World Beer Cup winners this year, it was a very long list. Super exciting to get to go through that and see all of our favorite breweries in there. So very exciting. We wanted to remind you about our Filson Vest Gold Medal program, which awards a custom vest to each gold medal winner for beers using at least 50% Great Western Malting or Canada Malting Co as their base malt. You can go ahead and reach out to your sales rep if you have any more questions.

Heather (45:54):
And finally, don’t forget to subscribe to the BrewDeck Podcast on Spotify and Apple Podcast, and we will catch you next time.