EPISODE S.5, E.13

Toby (00:09):
Well, hello, everyone.

Heather (00:11):
Hi.

Toby (00:11):
I’m talking to you two.

Heather (00:12):
Hi.

Toby (00:12):
I’m waiting for a response.

Cheyenne (00:12):
Hello, hello.

Toby (00:12):
There we go.

Heather (00:12):
Hello, hello.

Toby (00:17):
Heather and Cheyenne. We’re back, and today’s episode’s pretty cool. Looking forward to it. Spring barley growing season is officially underway, and farmers that work with us are definitely hard at work preparing for yet another busy harvest. So, for those of you that don’t know, barley’s one of the most complex crops in the ag industry. It requires a lot of care, hard labor, and special craft just like your beer, so we’re excited to have a couple of guests on that are putting in the work on the farm.

Heather (00:48):
Yeah, we’ve got Jeff Gibson from Taishi Ag in Idaho, and then we have Wade McAllister from Antler Valley Farm in Alberta joining us. Yeah, Great Western Malting farmer and a Canada Malting malting farmer.

Toby (01:03):
Looking forward to it.

Cheyenne (01:03):
I went into this episode not knowing a thing about farming, and I feel like I’m an expert now.

Toby (01:09):
I don’t know about that. So, Cheyenne, what would be the first thing you plant since you’re a professional farmer now? What are you going to plant?

Cheyenne (01:17):
First thing I would plant is cherry trees because we learned what cherry blowing is.

Heather (01:21):
Cherry blowing is.

Toby (01:22):
Yes.

Heather (01:23):
If you listen in on the rest of the episode, you will learn what that is, and it’s a very fun fact.

Cheyenne (01:28):
That is a very fun fact.

Toby (01:30):
It’s not what you think.

Cheyenne (01:31):
It’s not what you think.

Heather (01:31):
No, it’s not.

Toby (01:31):
Not what you think. So, we got a little bit of housekeeping, huh, Heather?

Heather (01:36):
Yeah, so in honor of Pride Month, we did bring this up in our last episode, we are giving away the very first rainbow strap Pink Boots Malt Bountiful Bag, and it’s also filled with goodies from some of our favorite diversity, equity, and inclusion brands within the craft brewing industry. So, if you order some Pink Boots Malt from your local CMG distribution center during the month of June, you will be automatically entered to win. The bag is amazing. All the goodies inside are amazing.

Cheyenne (02:05):
The bag is so, so cool.

Heather (02:06):
It’s so cool.

Toby (02:08):
Saw a picture of it, it was really cool.

Heather (02:09):
Yeah.

Cheyenne (02:10):
It’s beautiful, yeah. Awesome.

Heather (02:12):
I really wish I could enter.

Toby (02:13):
The Pink Boots Malt bag is kick (censored) too.

Heather (02:16):
It is.

Cheyenne (02:16):
Yeah, super cool.

Toby (02:19):
It’s unbelievable, and that’s a cool program.

Cheyenne (02:20):
I’ve got one hanging in my office. I’ve got an empty bag hanging in my office, and it’s so fun to look at.

Heather (02:23):
How did you-

Cheyenne (02:24):
The marketing team really nailed it with the design on that one.

Heather (02:26):
You got your hands on an empty bag?

Cheyenne (02:28):
I did, yeah.

Heather (02:30):
I got a sticker.

Cheyenne (02:32):
Aw, you got to get a bag.

Toby (02:33):
Poor Heather.

Heather (02:34):
Calling marketing immediately.

Toby (02:41):
Come on. It’s all good.

Cheyenne (02:41):
In other housekeeping news, our Filson Vest Gold Medal Program. The Canadian Brewing Awards’ vest requests close next Friday. That was a fun sentence to say.

Heather (02:50):
Yeah, that’s a good sentence.

Toby (02:51):
Real fast.

Cheyenne (02:53):
So, if you won gold with GWM or CMC base malt, make sure you let us know, and we can get you entered to get your Filson Vest.

Toby (03:01):
Those vests are so awesome. We keep saying it all the time-

Cheyenne (03:03):
Another thing that I want.

Toby (03:04):
Yes, I see random people wear them out, and I see people post them on Facebook. They’re great. For some reason-

Cheyenne (03:11):
They’re awesome.

Toby (03:11):
Yeah, we host the show, and we can’t even get a vest.

Heather (03:15):
Can’t get a vest.

Cheyenne (03:15):
No, it’s strictly for the brewers. Hailey has made sure of that. She’s been very clear, only the brewers get the vests. We don’t get our hands on it.

Toby (03:23):
Dammit.

Cheyenne (03:23):
I know. We got to brew a gold medal-winning beer, I guess.

Toby (03:26):
I guess.

Heather (03:26):
Who wants to help us? We could do that, right?

Toby (03:31):
I wouldn’t even make it to any show. They’d be like, “No, no, no, that’s terrible. Looking at… No, thanks.”

Heather (03:38):
I feel like Cheyenne could maybe help us.

Toby (03:39):
I guarantee it.

Heather (03:40):
[inaudible 00:03:41].

Cheyenne (03:41):
I could give it a try.

Toby (03:44):
Cool. Well, I’m looking forward to this. Let’s just jump right in.

Heather (03:46):
Yep, let’s go for it.

Toby (03:48):
Okay, I’m excited. Heather, Cheyenne, I’m sure you are too because this is the first time that I recall, and I really can’t recall what I did yesterday most of the time, so I could be wrong here, but it’s the first time we’ve had one of our growers on, a farmer, right?

Cheyenne (04:04):
Yeah, first time.

Toby (04:06):
We’ve had Ryan Dodd on, and Dustin Camphouse has been on, who Jeff knows fairly well, work together. And Dustin might do some growing himself, I don’t know, but I know Ryan does.

Heather (04:17):
Ryan does, yeah.

Toby (04:17):
But really excited because I know our growers, farmers are extremely busy all the time. It’s that time of the year, and thanks to Dustin for reaching out to Jeff Gibson with Taishi Ag in South Central Idaho. Happy to have you on, Jeff. Welcome.

Jeff (04:37):
I appreciate it. Thank you, guys, for allowing me to come on the show and talk with you about raising malt barley.

Toby (04:42):
Yeah, no worries. And I think it’s one of those things too as, on the distribution side and with Great Western Malting, Canada Malting, our company, we’re familiar, and most of us on the sales side have visited and been able to walk the farms and visit with farmers. But I think, for the listeners, it’s not something that they really get to connect or communicate with farmers or hear about the ins and outs of what happens in the ground and during off-season and in season. All that takes place before that malted barley or other grains they use, and their product gets to them, right? So, it’s one of those aspects that I’m looking forward to picking your brain a little bit. I know Heather and Cheyenne are as well, so yeah, thanks again for coming on.

Jeff (05:28):
Well, it’s a small brain to pick. You guys won’t have much time picking.

Toby (05:34):
No, no, it’s all good. So, you mentioned Dustin Camphouse in that you’ve been working with Great Western Malting for, what, 10 years or so? Is that right?

Jeff (05:42):
Approximately 10 years, yes. Yeah.

Toby (05:44):
Okay. Well, tell us a little bit about yourself and your farm.

Jeff (05:49):
Just family farm, second generation. We raise around 10,000 acres down here in South Central, all irrigated. We’re just getting out of the windy spring we’ve had down here, and things are starting to like they’re supposed to. It’s one of those things, I’ve been farming for 26 years now, so in my blood, enjoy doing what I do. It’s every day’s a different day. There’s no same problem every day.

Toby (06:16):
I bet. You mentioned 10,000 acres. Is that all in one continuous plot, or is it spread out depending on the needs of what you’re growing?

Jeff (06:24):
We’re spread out from… The farthest edge of one field to the other farthest edge of the field is about 65 acres, or 65 miles, excuse me.

Heather (06:32):
Wow.

Toby (06:35):
Jeez. It’s pretty big.

Jeff (06:36):
Yeah, I do a lot of driving. I spend a lot of time in my pickup.

Toby (06:41):
There’s nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that.

Heather (06:43):
So, you said second-generation farmer. Has it always been malting barley on the farm?

Jeff (06:49):
Yes, barley, sugar beets, potatoes is our big three, but we raise seven different crops on our farm.

Toby (06:59):
And is it typically the same variety or varietal of barley seeds you’re growing, or does it change year to year depending on the need?

Jeff (07:09):
Over the 8-10 years we’ve been doing it with Great Western, we’ve been changing slowly. We’ll raise one variety for three or four years, and then they’ll come out with a better variety that we’ll be switching to. This year’s the first year we’re raising some winter barley for them of a different variety I’ve never raised before. So, that’s kind of fun. Every year we get to do some test plots with some other varieties to see if it’s going to be better producing barley for them and for us on the farm if we can get better yields, better weights. So, they’re constantly in production trying to give us a new variety to try and help us help them, I guess, all at the same time.

Toby (07:48):
Yeah, and it makes a lot of sense too, and obviously, as a farmer, you want to maximize the yield, and on our end, we want to do the same, and we want to work together and partner with you and the other growers to make sure that the product at the end of the day that you can benefit. And then it makes a great product for us to send our end-users the brewer, so that’s cool. You mentioned beets and what else do you grow?

Jeff (08:17):
We raise seven different crops on our farm, but we raise sugar beets, potatoes, barley, hay, corn, triticalia, canola. So, we have a good variety of everything.

Toby (08:32):
Yeah, sounds like it. And I know I’ve visited out there in South Central with feet on the ground there, but most of it’s irrigated, is that correct?

Jeff (08:43):
We’re 100% irrigation, correct.

Toby (08:45):
Okay. What are the benefits between 100% irrigated versus non… Obviously, there’s the risk, right? Because you can’t control mother nature, but I know in irrigated areas such as where you’re located, there’s… Is there water rights? How does it work as far as what you can and can’t use on irrigation, et cetera?

Jeff (09:09):
We don’t get a lot of precipitation. We’re about 12 inches of precipitation a year here, so there’s just no dry land around because it just burns up. Everything around us has to be irrigated. Either we have a surface irrigation district, which comes out of the Snake River, and we also have a deep well pumping association. We’re pumping three to 400 feet out of the ground for the water on some of our farms.

(09:35)
So, that’s our big thing is which aquifer if we’re coming out of the aquifer, or if we’re coming out of the canal district. And this year, we have oodles of water coming out of the Snake River, so it’s a good year for us with water. Some years drought-stricken and the water issues are more and more of a conversation.

Toby (09:53):
Yeah, a lot of that Snake River water availability year to year, is that dependent on snowpack from the winter?

Jeff (10:01):
Yes. We have a really good water right here out of the Snake River, but when we get two or three years of drought, it does become questionable. That’s why with Great Western’s winter barley varieties, I’m saving a lot of water in my deep wells just being able to plant that because we put on irrigation out in the fall, and it takes probably half as much as the spring crop does. So, that’s a really good product for us to use in our organization.

Toby (10:28):
Yeah, absolutely. And I’m bouncing all over the place, Jeff, just because it’s one of those days, but the water, does it… Okay, if you’re taking water from the well or the Snake River, does the quality or intricacies or whatever you would call it from the water matter? Does the well water have a certain chemical property that you got to monitor compared to what you’re taking out of the Snake River?

Jeff (10:58):
No, there’s no water difference. The water that’s coming out of the Snake is just mountain runoff, but the water we’re pulling out of that deep aquifer out there it’s crystal-clear drinking water. You can go pull up to a pivot and get a drink of water whenever you want. In town, where we’re on the Snake River, not quite so.

Toby (11:17):
Sure. Yeah, you mentioned some of the other products that you’re growing out there, and we hear a lot about crop rotation. A lot of listeners probably don’t realize that it’s not 100% of the time every year every season you’re planting barley, right?

Jeff (11:38):
No, we try not to go back-to-back crops just for the fertility of the ground. If you’re going back-to-back, you’re going to find a yield decrease, quality decrease. So, that’s why we raise so many different varieties of crops to give us a better rotation. If we go two years of barley in a row, it’s not bad, but we do not want to go three years. You just start seeing a lot more yield drag, quality drag on our production end. And that’s-

Heather (12:05):
What is the [inaudible 00:12:06] you would typically plant in between the barley crops?

Jeff (12:11):
A typical rotation will be like a potato crop, then we could go barley, then a sugar beet crop then go barley. We use the barley as a rotation on row crops.

Toby (12:25):
Yeah, and it really comes down to putting the appropriate nutrients right back into the soil, correct?

Jeff (12:31):
Correct. Correct, and that’s where the barley really is good because we can put so much residue back in the ground and that helps us with the other crops to come, to follow.

Toby (12:40):
Right, makes sense. On the barley side, we hear that it’s a challenging crop to grow. I believe that’s why it commands a premium because there’s feed-grade barley, and then, obviously, malting-grade barley that we look for at Great Western Malting. Is it a more challenging crop to be able to grow compared to the others?

Jeff (13:10):
No, not necessarily that. Our challenges would be to make sure that we’re providing you guys the proper proteins, the proper weight. It’s not too thin, lack of water. You get a big windstorm laid over and shrivel up the barley. That’s probably our biggest challenges to provide you guys a good quality barley is those things. To make sure you have protein you’re looking for and the plump.

Toby (13:37):
Yep, awesome. So, are there certain times that you have to make mid-season adjustments based on the weather or based on what you’re seeing coming out of the ground? Or is it just like let Mother Nature do its thing, we’ll find out how this thing progresses throughout the season?

Jeff (14:00):
Well, every year creates its own challenges. In South Central Idaho, we start to get afternoon windstorms this time of the year, and our winter barley’s headed out, starting to feel. And we got to be real careful not to lay it over, so we’re constantly monitoring it. The winds get to a certain point, we go out start shutting pumps off in the afternoons, turn them back on.

(14:24)
We got to be careful, when we start the season, not to have too much fertilizer to get it too thick and too heavy to lay over. So, those are constantly battles we’re facing in our organization is just monitoring it, get it established, and not ruin it here at the end with these windstorms or rainstorms that come through.

Cheyenne (14:45):
It’s super interesting to hear that wind is a consideration with farming because when you think of farming, for someone who doesn’t know too much about it, you think of the water, you think of sun, soil. I would never think that wind would be something that you have to contend with and something that you have to think about.

Jeff (15:00):
Yeah, the wind here, I mean it pulls the moisture out of the ground in the spring pretty fast. So, the wind is definitely a battle that we fight in South Central Idaho on a regular basis.

Toby (15:11):
So, you mentioned… I asked earlier about how the weather is just to pass some time when we were trying to get this Zoom thing figured out. You mentioned, is it high winds right now or higher winds?

Jeff (15:23):
No, we just get afternoon storms that come through, and it would be no wind in the morning, and then all of a sudden, we’ll have three four hours of a 20-mile-an-hour wind come through. So, it’s just the weather patterns going from the cool spring that we had to the warmer weather just gives us different weather patterns that will come through here mid to late June.

Toby (15:42):
Yeah, okay. Sustainability, I know it’s a big, big topic right now, and just curious, we’re doing a lot of things on our end alongside our farmer growers. What are some of the things that y’all do typically, or what do you think the future looks like as far as sustainability in general?

Jeff (16:10):
Sustainability is something that we all got to address in our own ways, and everybody looks at it differently. We’re looking at it as what can we do to use less fertilizer, less water, and keep our ground in top-producing shape. So, we’ve sampled with some different chemicals. We sampled with a product called Source last year, put it on across all of our barley acres, and it’s allowed us to shut our water off for two days a week, which we used to not do in the past.

(16:41)
So, on a Friday night or Saturday morning, we’ll go shut all the water off, and then turn it back on, on Monday morning. And it’s a chemical that helps the roots take a better intake of the water that’s in the soil and fertilizer as well. I’m not as sold on the fertilizer uptake as I am the water.

(17:01)
So, that’s just one practice we’re using. We’re using a lot more compost in our organization to take care of our potash and phosphate needs. Trying to use less conventional fertilizer. I think that’s a big part of the future we’re faced against. I know the other end likes to hear the word sustainability, and I understand that as a farmer. We want to be sustainable for my next generation, my son to take over the farm, and I want to leave the dirt better to him than when I got it. I want it in really good shape producing maximum production out of it. I don’t want to take away from it.

(17:40)
We’re also using some soil probes that we plant out in our fields about 10 inches, 12 inches deep that I can monitor from my phone to watch the water. Watch availability of the water in the soil to see, “Hey, if I can make one less irrigation across the barley field.” It doesn’t sound like much, but when each pivot we use is 800 gallons a minute and you add up by 48 hours, that’s a lot of water we can save to just one field.

Toby (18:07):
Yeah, it sounds like just a version of what I have on my grass in the front yard, right? It’s got the rain sensor.

Jeff (18:14):
Yeah, yes, yes.

Toby (18:16):
But no, it sounds like that’s even more precise, right? You can put those rods out. How far do you spread them out? Is it every couple of acres or… And again, leading into the questions about innovations, we visited… Heather, I don’t know if you were there or Cheyenne, but we visited Stoddard Farms, and just the crazy amount of visibility they have on their laptop or the computer that they can do everything by GPS and turn on and off irrigation by their phone, it’s just crazy. So, I guess where I’m getting at this, Jeff, is yeah, tell us a little bit more about what you’re doing and the innovations that you’re seeing on your end.

Jeff (19:03):
Well, taking that to the next level like you’re saying, we put those soil probes out. I just do one per 120 acres. It’s not exact, but it gives me an idea to saying, “Okay. Hey, agronomists or whoever, let’s check this field once a week rather than driving a pickup 60 miles to go check it twice a week or three times a week.” And all of our pivots are on my phone, so at all point in time, I could bring up almost every field that we farm, see where the pivots at, see how long it’s been on or off.

(19:32)
At the end of the year, we can monitor how many inches of water we put on it. Also, every tractor on the farm is on my phone, so I can monitor what production is from that tractor for that day. How many gallons of diesel it’s using to plant the grain crop, to the grain combines having the same thing. I can get my yield, and that’s about every acre. I could print out a map of each acre of that field or what it yielded, how it looked.

(20:02)
So, yeah, the technology’s just going crazy. I’m super excited about it. There are talking this autonomous tractor, autonomous grain combines. I told John Deere, I said, “Hey, I want to be on the leading edge of this because autonomous is the future.”

Toby (20:17):
Yeah, and I think it even goes back to too if you can capitalize on opportunities to minimize emissions or whatever, burning fuel in your tractor, you’re low on cost. Yeah, it seems like it’s all headed in that direction, and it’s something that I think all farmers should be looking forward to and participating in. That’s pretty cool.

Jeff (20:41):
Well, it’s amazing how dependent we get on this technology. If my FieldNET or my pivot app goes down, I’m calling them saying, “Hey, what’s going on? Why’s my app down? I can’t watch my pivots.” Or the tractor app goes down. It’s like, “Hey, guys, I need this up and running,” because it saves me a lot of driving time when we’re harvesting the barley and I have to help the combines move from field to field. I could get on my phone instead of driving and sitting for an hour, two hours waiting for them to finish, it’s real-time. I can say, “Oh, they got 30 minutes, I can go now, or two hours.” I could go do a couple other things before to help me make my day more efficiently, and like you said, less emissions of driving.

Toby (21:20):
Yeah, is there any way that you could handle the operation the size of the acreage you have now 30 years ago without this technology? I mean you probably did, so-

Jeff (21:33):
No, we’ve grown quite a bit. The technology’s what’s allowed us to grow faster with less growing pains, I guess. Yeah, from when I started, everybody had handled radios, and the cell phone was only for the really important guys. No one had cell phones in the early ’90s. There was a few here and there, but nothing like today. Everybody’s got their phone, we don’t carry handheld radios anymore. We all talk on our phones.

Toby (22:03):
Yeah, I remember back in the day we had pagers and that was the first innovation. Oh, a pager, and then you got to find a phone to call somebody, or the backpack phone.

Jeff (22:08):
Yep, I remember those too.

Heather (22:11):
I had my truck phones [inaudible 00:22:12]-

Toby (22:12):
Right, they were four pounds.

Heather (22:15):
Yep.

Toby (22:18):
Yeah. So, how big is your crew? Just curious, does it depend on… Do you have help that comes in during harvest time and seeding, or is it pretty consistent throughout the year?

Jeff (22:32):
We vary. In the spring, we’ll get up when we’re doing the peak of planting all of our crops. It seems like we’re planting once anymore. We’ll be up to about 60-65 employees, and then during harvest, at our peak, we’re over 130.

Toby (22:49):
Wow. Yeah, that’s huge. You mentioned the size of your operation, but going back to… And I think this is a question that, Heather or Cheyenne, you may want to know too, but we hear a lot about bushels and what that translates into end product of barley. But on a really good year, as far as barley’s concerned, is there a certain ceiling you’re looking for, or I’m sorry, floor that you’re looking for as far as production bushels per acre? And what exactly is a bushel?

Jeff (23:29):
Well, a bushel is based on 48 pounds is what we do. Our best we’ve ever had is 200-210 is our best in one field, not across the board in the winter varieties. The spring varieties on top end they’ll be 160-165. On an average in our winter stuff, we’re down in the 160s, 150s. Springs we’re down in the 130s, 140s.

Heather (24:01):
Awesome, yeah. We get so much between bushels per acre and what that translates into metric tons, and what that translates into what’s coming into the malthouse and stuff like that, so thank you for that. Can you touch on a little bit about what varieties you are currently working with? Barley varieties in general.

Jeff (24:21):
Well, we use the wintmalt. Our big variety in the winter is the wintmalt, and we’ve got Donohue is another one we do a few of a little bit, not a lot of. M69 is my big spring variety. That’s the only one I raise last couple of years. You guys have been M69. It’s been a great variety. It doesn’t get real tall, we don’t have a big problem with lodging with that variety. And I know I’ve been talking with Dustin about it, and I know we’re trying to change the spring variety to a different one, but I don’t know where we’re going with it. I have not raised any of the new variety coming.

Heather (24:58):
You like when you get to trial some of the new stuff that they come up with?

Jeff (25:02):
I do. I think that if we’re not trying something different, we’re not moving forward, so yeah, I like when they give me a pivot or 100 acres or 200 acres of a variety that they say, “Hey, we’ve had some luck with it, but let’s put it out there and see what it can and can’t do.” So, yeah, every year’s a new challenge, and I like those kind of challenges just to see where we’re going because we can’t be happy with where we’re at, or like I say, we’ll be going backwards.

Heather (25:26):
That’s true. That’s true. So, you said you’ve been working with Great Western Malting for about the past 10 years. How do you feel that Great Western Malt supports you as a producer?

Jeff (25:38):
I’ve dealt with three other malting places, and I’ve quit dealing with everybody else but Great Western. I feel like they’re a very farm-friendly organization. I mean it seems like they understand every year’s got its own challenges, every field has its own challenges, and they’re very eager to work through your problems with you, not against you. If they’re short of malting, they’re saying, “Hey, we got too much malt. We don’t need your variety because of this.” I’ve never had that problem with them.

(26:11)
It’s like, “Hey, we’ve got a lot, but we’re taking everything we took. Do you have a crop or two? We’ll still take what you got because we agreed to take it.” And it’s been a really good working relationship with them for the last 10 years, I feel.

Heather (26:21):
Great. Yeah, we really value our relationships with our producers even on our end. Like Toby said, I mean I’m up in Canada, so I get to visit the Canadian producers quite a bit, and it’s absolutely fantastic. All right, so we’re into planting right now. How’s planting in your area? How are things looking right now?

Jeff (26:43):
Yeah, we are getting ready to shut some water off already on our winter barley. We’ll be shutting off probably next week. Some of the earliest planted will be in harvest here, and probably the 10th-11th of July we’ll start harvest. So, the winter variety, as cold a spring as we had, I feel like we’re on track for maybe a little above-average crop in the winter. This spring it’s up and run good, looks good. Too early to tell, but we’re on the right track to have a good crop it looks like. The spring was fairly cool, which allowed the spring barley to stool real well. So, we didn’t have to water it up. It all came with the rains we had, so I think we’re on track to have at least an average to above-average barley crop this year.

Toby (27:30):
Bees. I’ve seen some growers out there actually do a lot with bee around canola. Is that something y’all do too?

Jeff (27:39):
Yes, yes.

Toby (27:40):
Cool. So, what do y’all do? You just set boxes on the various plots and just gather the honey?

Jeff (27:50):
Well, for our farm, we’re raising the canola seed for, I guess it’d be the first generation. So, we have to have a male section and a female section. The bees are out pollinating the females because the male plants do not… They’re sterile, they will not produce, so they have to go to the male to get to the female to make the seed. So, there’s a lot of bees in a canola field pollinating.

Toby (28:22):
Wow, so people just take advantage of, “Hey, you got bees out there. Let’s gather some honey.” Pretty cool.

Jeff (28:29):
They do, they do. There are bee producers that we rent the bees from. They come out and they get the honey, and it’s really good. They bring us honey every year, so I like to see them at the end of the year when we pay them because they bring us quite a bit of honey, and then it’s really good. It’s a good product.

Toby (28:44):
Bee rentals, interesting.

Heather (28:46):
I was just thinking that.

Toby (28:47):
You rent bees.

Jeff (28:47):
Yeah.

Heather (28:47):
[inaudible 00:28:48].

Toby (28:49):
I didn’t know there was a business that existed like that, but I guess it makes sense.

Jeff (28:52):
Yeah, they come in and set their hives out and we have to, I think… Don’t quote me on this, I’m shooting from the hip, but I think it takes three hives per acre, so it’s a lot of bees.

Toby (29:04):
Wow. So, when your lease runs up on the bees, they just come and take them and move them somewhere else?

Jeff (29:10):
Yep. Yeah, they’re getting ready to start placing them out right now, and the canola’s just getting ready to start flowering. So, they’ll place them out there and they’ll leave them out there probably until mid-July, and then they’ll come and pick them up, and they put them out in the mornings, and they take them away in the mornings or late evenings when they come back to their hives.

Toby (29:27):
Gosh, greatness, greatness. All right, Jeff, really appreciate your time. Is there anything else you want to chat about? Anything else you want to plug on the farm out there?

Jeff (29:41):
No, I just appreciate you guys’ time. I’d like to say thanks to Great Western. They’re a great company to work for or with, I guess you’d say, and no, I appreciate you guys allowing me to spend time with you guys on this interview.

Toby (29:53):
Well, we couldn’t do it without you. We couldn’t enjoy our beverages and beer without you and other farmers like yourself, so we do appreciate your time.

Jeff (30:03):
Well, I do enjoy what I raise too. I enjoy the aftermath.

Heather (30:09):
I was going to say what’s your favorite beer? Do I get to ask that?

Jeff (30:13):
Cold. How’s that for an answer?

Heather (30:15):
That’s perfect.

Toby (30:16):
Anything in my hand.

Heather (30:17):
Yeah, whatever’s in the fridge right now.

Jeff (30:19):
Anything my friend buys me and it’s cold, those are the best two beers I have.

Toby (30:23):
I like it. Well, hey, Jeff, we really appreciate your time, and again, you’re important to what we do as an organization. And Great Western appreciates you and looking forward to continuing our relationship, and yeah, hopefully, we can have you on sooner rather than later.

Jeff (30:41):
Yes, I appreciate you guys, and thank you for all you do.

Heather (30:44):
Welcome back. We are now joined by Wade McAllister from Antler Valley Farm in Northern Alberta. Welcome, Wade.

Wade (30:53):
Yeah, welcome. Thanks. We are not quite Northern Alberta

Heather (30:56):
Oh, I guess Central Alberta, yes.

Wade (30:57):
Yeah, Central Alberta. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Heather (30:57):
Of course, it was me that had to screw that one up. The one that lived in Alberta.

Cheyenne (31:05):
Canada’s a very big country. I feel like it’s all subjective.

Wade (31:08):
Yeah.

Heather (31:10):
Nailing it. So, Wade, can you give us a little bit of an introduction to Antler Valley Farm?

Wade (31:18):
Yeah, for sure. So, obviously, Wade McAllister. I farm here in Central Alberta on the family farm. We are located just about 15 minutes south of Red Deer. Our farm is located right off of Highway 2, so the big highway between Calgary and Edmonton. We’ve been here for 135 years on the exact same piece of property that my great-great-grandfather homesteaded on in 1890.

(31:51)
So, I currently farm full-time with my brother Scott, and my dad is still… He’s still involved on the farm, and then we have one hired hand that works for us about seven months of the year and then he takes the winters off. Farm size, about 3,500 acres of owned and rented land. We spread about 18 miles from north to south. And most of our land is along that Highway 2 corridor, so as I tell people, we’re always on the stage front. We got 60-70,000 cars a day driving by our fields. So, we’ve taken a lot of pride in our yard and our fields and how we do things just because there is so many eyes on us at all times.

(32:37)
And then the crop rotations, what we grow is big malt barley guys. We’re growing soft white wheat now for Canada Malt, we’re growing fall rye for Canada Malt, and then we have some canola and peas in the rotation as well. So, yeah, that’s a little bit about my farm. I’m married, I got two kids. My wife works off the farm. She’s in marketing, graphic design, and my brother’s wife works for ATB. So, yeah, both off-farm jobs, so it’s just my brother and I full-time on the farm with my dad.

Cheyenne (33:12):
Wow, that’s super cool. And before we had started recording, you were telling us a little bit. You said your wife is in marketing. We were talking about you’ve got a great website with all of the family photos going back five generations.

Wade (33:26):
Yes.

Cheyenne (33:26):
So, that’s your wife did that?

Wade (33:26):
Yeah, she did. Yeah, so we’re just, like I say, 135 years of history here, and it’s nice just to have it all in one spot. We should update the website. It is a little dated now. There’s been a lot of changes since the last time it was updated, but it’s a nice place just for family members to go to and just to look back on how far we’ve come. And then looking at past history and photos and all of those things, and just don’t forget the people that got us to where we are today. It’s a special thing, and I’m glad that I have a wife that was able to do that for us.

Heather (34:06):
Yeah, very cool. I went through it prior to the interview. There’s a lot of information on there, so I’d encourage everybody to go check it out.

Toby (34:14):
Hey, Wade, I got a question.

Wade (34:15):
Thank you.

Heather (34:15):
[inaudible 00:34:16]-

Toby (34:15):
Sorry.

Wade (34:16):
Yeah, go ahead.

Toby (34:17):
Very important question, it’s not related to farm. Well, maybe it is. What is blowing cherries? I’m reading that you’re a helicopter pilot. What does that mean?

Wade (34:24):
Yeah, I get that question a lot. So, end Kelowna when I started flying, I should have actually told you guys that. I’m a commercial helicopter pilot. I’ve been flying for 18 years now, so that’s what I did. My dad always told my brother and I, “Before you come back to the farm and you’re employing people, you got to know what it’s like to work for somebody else.” And so, yeah, I’m a helicopter pilot, my brother’s a journeyman millwright. We both came back to the farm 14 years ago, now full-time.

(34:56)
So, I was living in Kelowna flying helicopters, and cherry tree drying is when just before the cherry is about to be harvested or picked, when they get a rain, the rain sits where the stem comes out of the cherry. And as soon as the sun comes up, that water is absorbed by the cherry and the cherry will actually split. Now, if a cherry is split, it is worth nothing. Who wants to buy a split cherry, right? So, we go up and we hover up and down the rows about half hour before sunrise, and we just go up and down the rows and we’re shaking the hell out of the trees to blow all the water off.

Cheyenne (35:37):
That is so cool.

Wade (35:39):
It is.

Heather (35:39):
I have spent a lot of time in the Okanagan, and I did not know that that happens.

Wade (35:43):
Well, you probably never do, honestly, because… I mean not that you don’t get up early, but we try to get out there before the sun comes up-

Cheyenne (35:50):
Really early.

Wade (35:50):
Because like I say, as soon as that heat in that Okanagan, as soon as those cherries absorb that water, they’re ruined. So, these guys are paying a lot of money for these helicopters to fly up and down, but they’ll lose their whole crop. It’s like us and hail, they’ll lose everything, so yeah.

Cheyenne (36:14):
That was not the answer that I was expecting when [inaudible 00:36:15].

Wade (36:14):
Yeah.

Toby (36:15):
No, I was Google searching it trying to figure it out, but this.

Wade (36:19):
Yeah, you probably don’t want to do that, yeah.

Toby (36:20):
Not in a public place I’d say. No.

Wade (36:22):
No, no, but it was an awesome job. I just had my license, so it was excellent to build skills because you’re hovering close to the ground. You’re only about 15 feet off these trees and you’re just hovering back and forth. So, it really got your skills good, right? Because I mean it’s easy to fly fast and straight, but to fly really slow like that and go up and down the rows, it was awesome, man. It really brought the farmer back in me when I was out in Kelowna flying up and down every third row.

Toby (36:51):
I went on a helicopter ride over the Grand Canyon a couple of months ago. I thought I was going to lose my lunch and then some. It was great, yeah.

Wade (36:59):
Oh, really? Was it bumpy or what?

Toby (36:59):
Yeah, it was a little bumpy, but then the Grand Canyon’s just so massive. It’s so-

Wade (37:02):
Oh, for sure.

Toby (37:05):
Oh, it’s just crazy. But yeah, it’s commendable how you fly those little things.

Cheyenne (37:07):
I guess your pilot wasn’t a cherry-blower in his previous career.

Toby (37:09):
He might have been.

Wade (37:10):
He might have been, right? So, at the farm, we actually just purchased a helicopter two winters ago, and I have full intentions of starting to spray with it hopefully in the near future. Doing all our fungicides for our crops by air because then you’re not driving that high-clearance ground unit through the crops and damaging it. And they help with compaction and making ruts and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, so the farm actually owns a helicopter now.

Toby (37:44):
Nice. That’s great. I was curious, I mean, obviously, fifth generation, and sixth on the ground as well. So, yeah, y’all have been doing it a long time. Was there something particular… I guess, two questions: how’d y’all get into growing malt-grade barley, and when did that start happening on farm? And then tell me what else you grow.

Wade (38:10):
Oh, man. My dad has been growing malt for a long time, and I mean barley is sexy, right? Barley is the cool crop to grow, especially when you’re supporting an industry that we all love, right? The beer. And yeah, so my dad, I don’t know how long he’s been growing it for. I’m pretty sure he’s been growing it for… Oh, man, probably at least 40-plus years we’ve been growing it on farm.

(38:42)
Malt barley in Central Alberta is probably one of the best places to grow malt barley because of how close we are to the mountains. We have a great growing region. It’s barley that is consistent year to year, so that is the great thing about this area is we can grow barley that is the same specs, and the maltsters know that they’re getting the exact same grain from us every year.

(39:05)
And so, when it comes to consistency for the maltster or the brewer, it really comes down to us producing that consistent product, right? So, that’s a big reason. There’s a lot of barley growing around here. Like I said earlier, the other crops: soft white wheat, CPS wheat, canola, peas, and we started growing fall rye three years ago as well.

Toby (39:31):
I like how you mention consistency or the best… Obviously, Mother Nature just controls… Well, pretty much everything y’all do on the farm.

Wade (39:39):
Yes, she does. Yeah, yeah.

Toby (39:41):
I’m glad you mentioned that too because, ultimately, the maltsters’ jobs are to produce highly consistent product that ultimately gets its hands into the brewery. And the brewery’s job is to produce that consistency of product that the drinker knows and loves, right?

Wade (39:59):
Yeah.

Toby (39:59):
So, it is interesting that you mentioned that the growers and farmers like yourselves are trying to focus on consistency to work its way all the way down in people’s glass. That’s cool.

Wade (40:10):
Well, 100%, right? And it’s the same for us. Every year we treat the barley the same way. I try to seed it the same date, I try to seed at the same rate. We spray it at the same time, fungicides at the same time, harvest at the same time. Just the whole thing every year is the same for us, depending on Mother Nature, of course. She’s the boss of everything. But if she gives us the right timelines and everything, and moisture, and conditions, every year we can go back… Probably since I came back to farm, I can go back 12-15 years, and every year the barley is the exact same.

(40:45)
So, Canada Malt loves that because every time they get a load of grain from us, it’s the exact same. So, when they malt it, it’s the exact same, and when the brewer brews it, it’s exact same. So, that is 100% the best part.

Toby (40:59):
Well, that’s great to know.

Heather (40:59):
[inaudible 00:41:00].

Toby (41:01):
I’m so far south from all three of you. I’m way down here in Texas.

Wade (41:07):
Okay. Oh, wow. Okay, yeah.

Toby (41:08):
Yeah, so it’d be difficult, and I was telling Heather and Cheyenne earlier, but it’d be difficult to point out specific places in Canada on a map. So, I got to ask the question though because I’m not familiar. Is a lot of your farming irrigated or non-irrigated? What is-

Wade (41:27):
Yeah, there’s no irrigation really until you get south of Okotoks. You’re probably half hour south of Calgary before you start seeing irrigation, so probably two hours away south. Up here, honestly, there are some years where we would love for her to just stop watering the crops. We get over water in here. I would say an average rainfall in year would be 8-10 inches.

Toby (41:59):
Wow, that’s a lot.

Wade (42:00):
Yeah, it’s a lot, right? So, that’s another reason why the helicopter comes in is because this spring I was trying to put on this fungicide to protect the plants from disease, and sometimes we can’t even get in the fields because we’re making ruts one end to the other. So, that’s when the by-air is going to come into play. Yeah, we have been in a bit of a dry spell the last couple of years, but on a normal, say year, 100% get way too much water. Which is-

Heather (42:28):
Wow, coming out of 2021 where we had not nearly enough water, I think.

Wade (42:33):
Right? Yeah, but it’s way cheaper than irrigation, so that is a big cost savings for us too is just having that natural rainfall.

Heather (42:41):
Mm-hmm. So, you mentioned you’re growing peas, you’re growing wheat, and rye. Can you tell us a little bit about your crop rotation? What do you plant in between your barley crops?

Wade (42:54):
Yeah, so usually, it’s two years of barley back-to-back. We have our barley fields and our wheat fields because it’s tough to grow a cereal on a cereal like say a barley on a wheat. Because you’re going to have the volunteers come in, and they’re really hard to spray out and clean out once a crop is harvested. So, two years of barley back-to-back, and then we’ll toss in a canola crop, and then maybe do a pulse or a fall rye, and then back to barley.

(43:28)
So, we try to do at least three years between a crop, and that really helps with herbicide resistance, spraying different groups of chemical as well as disease. Spraying different groups of chemicals for your disease, and it just keeps your soil a lot more healthy, and it just allows us to continue doing what we’re doing and be sustainable.

Heather (43:58):
You mentioned volunteers. Is that-

Wade (44:01):
Yeah, volunteers. So, a volunteer is something that is growing in the current year from a previous year. So, stuff that-

Heather (44:09):
If you had some wheat spreading [inaudible 00:44:11]-

Wade (44:12):
100%. So, whatever comes out of the back of the combine or falls off of the head before it’s harvested. I mean we’re talking very little unless… Or even say a big hailstorm comes through when the heads are fully developed and they go on the ground, well, that’s all going to grow the next year. So, you really got to watch all those things. Be very cautious of what we plant on what fields. But like I say, for the most part, it’s pretty easy once you get a rhythm going. We know two years out what’s going to be growing on each field.

Heather (44:46):
I learned about the volunteers. I was out touring fields a couple of years ago, and I learned about that. That was something I didn’t know, which it makes sense, but I didn’t know it would be an issue.

Wade (44:56):
Yeah, so like a canola volunteer in a cereal crop, easy to kill. The herbicide, done. But wheat in a barley crop, yeah, you’re not going to kill it. It’s going to come, and then you don’t want wheat in your barley and vice versa.

Heather (45:14):
Yeah, for sure.

Wade (45:14):
Yeah, yeah.

Heather (45:17):
So, can you talk a little bit about the challenges? I know we mentioned Mother Nature. You’re working off of non-irrigated land. What are some other challenges you’re facing in growing malting barley?

Wade (45:31):
Yeah, so frost, I think, is probably another big challenge. An early frost. So, when the crop’s just coming out of the ground, maybe that one, two leaf and we get a frost. Well, the crops, if it’s a hard frost like maybe minus one, minus two for longer than a couple of hours, it’s probably going to kill it. And then you’re reseeding, and now you’ve just delayed everything because it’s been in the ground for two weeks and we get a frost, now you got to reseed. So, you’re two weeks behind right off the get-go.

(46:04)
That’s probably one of the biggest things, especially where we live close to the mountains. We do get those cold nights. We’re still getting them. I mean even this year it’s colder than it’s been in the past. And then as well as the late frost. So, if you don’t get your crop in soon enough and it’s not ready at the end maturing naturally and you get a frost, well those kernels won’t develop. You’re going to have tiny, light, shriveled-up kernels. So, that’s another big factor.

(46:35)
Weather, hail. Big hail region here. I would say 7 out of 10 years we get hail. Some of it can be really bad, some of it can just be a little bit, but usually always get hail, and then the amount of rain we get. So, frost, hail, and too much rain are probably our biggest challenges weather-related.

Cheyenne (47:00):
So, for this episode, we were also interviewing another farmer in Idaho, and he was saying that wind is a big consideration in that region for him and something that they have to factor in in their growing season. Is that something that you have to contend with or is it mostly just the hail and the rain?

Wade (47:15):
Yeah. No, mostly just hail and the rain. Wind more so when the crop is fully developed because the wind can just, again, plow a wind through or something like that. It will make the crop go from beautiful standing to flat on the ground. And then that’s when you’re going to start to see a drop in your quality.

(47:35)
So, we straight cut a lot of our crops. Well, we straight cut, honestly, everything except for our canola, sorry. So, by straight cutting, you’re not leaving your crop in a row for combine to pick up. We’re going in one pass with the harvester. That helps us to keep that quality up and keep that consistency up because if you lay down a swathe and then it gets rained on in the swathe, that barley will start sprouting very, very quickly.

Cheyenne (48:09):
Oh, interesting.

Wade (48:10):
Yeah, so that’s one thing that we do differently than… I shouldn’t say… I think it’s maybe a 60/40 split now of people that straight cut over swathe, but there’s still a good handful of people out there, farmers out there that still swathe their crops. And where we live, with our rains that we get, it’s way too risky to layer barley, wheat in a swathe.

Cheyenne (48:37):
Interesting. So, you’re mentioning these weather considerations that can be challenges while you’re farming. Can you tell us a little bit about how the growing conditions are currently?

Wade (48:48):
Currently, like I said, it’s been cool. So, we are probably a solid week, week-and-a-half behind where we were this time last year. We could use a rain. It looks like we might get a little bit on the weekend here coming up, so that’s good. And it’s been windy as hell. The winds this year are just insane compared to what they have been in the past. So, the wind is not good right now because it’s drying out the soil so much. So, we definitely could use a rain, but overall, I’m very happy with the way the crops look. Very happy.

Cheyenne (49:27):
That’s good to hear. Everyone do your rain dances. We’ll get you a rain.

Heather (49:30):
Yeah.

Wade (49:37):
Yeah, kill those spiders. Kill those spiders, yeah.

Cheyenne (49:37):
So, like I said, kudos to your wife because this website is amazing, but we were taking a peek around your website earlier. And so, I see that you do something that’s called zero till, and you’ve been doing this since 2002, is that correct?

Wade (49:50):
That’s correct, yeah.

Cheyenne (49:51):
So, what is zero till, and is that a sustainability effort on your part?

Wade (49:56):
100%. Zero till is when you… So, in the fall when you harvest the crop, and then you heavy harrow. That’s when you’re spreading all the straw that’s come out of the back of the harvester. You’re just spreading it evenly around the field because it never comes out that even out of the back of the combine. So, you’re spreading all the straw, and then we’re direct seeding into last year’s crop.

(50:25)
Conventional tillage is when you usually hit it one, two, three times with the cultivator and blacken the soil up. You’re destroying all of your microorganisms, you’re depleting the soil of organic matter, you’re burning a ton of fuel, you’re putting way more hours on your tractor, your man-hours. All of those things come into factor when you’re doing that conventional tillage, whereas we just pull in and direct seed.

(50:57)
So, definitely, we’re seeing our soil health get better. Obviously, less diesel being burnt, less man-hours, and less tractor hours, all of those things. But the biggest thing is our soil health. Our soil, we have a lot of nice black soil in our area here, but you grab this soil that has been zero tilled for almost 22 years, and it’s like when you go to store and you buy a bag of potting soil, that is what our soil’s like.

(51:25)
It’s just gorgeous. It flows through your hands, there’s no lumps. It’s full of earthworms. Earthworms are one of the greatest things for us because they’re breaking up the soil. They’re breaking up any compaction or anything like that. Yeah, so that’s zero tilling.

Cheyenne (51:43):
Wow, that’s really cool.

Toby (51:45):
Those earthworms are good for fishing too down here.

Wade (51:48):
Oh, 100% they are. Absolutely.

Toby (51:49):
Perch, crappie, catfish will get up on them sometimes too. Yeah, I like them.

Wade (51:55):
When you’re seeding and you see all the birds flocking behind you landing after the seedbed, that’s a great sight because you know you have the worms and healthy soil.

Toby (52:08):
Nice.

Cheyenne (52:08):
Wow, that’s super cool.

Toby (52:11):
Well, talking about… I was fortunate enough to visit a couple of farms over the last five years and just listened to the amount of things that they’re doing innovation-wise. These are some younger guys. I think it’s third or fourth generation as well, and they have the most crazy technology that I’ve ever seen. And more importantly, when it comes to farming.

(52:41)
They had visuals, GPS operating machinery. They had water absorption in certain parts of their farm. They could figure out how many bushels are getting off certain tracks every year. It was unreal the amount of innovation and money they put into their operation. Is that something that y’all are doing as well?

Wade (53:08):
It is for sure. We look really closely at that, and some of this innovation stuff costs quite a bit of money, so you got to really look at it like what’s your return on investment when you’re doing this kind of stuff. But we do innovation, I guess, yeah, like data mapping is a big one for us. We’re running iPads in all of the equipment now, and it’s logging everything that we do on the farm. Seeding dates, seeding rates, fertilizer, variable rate fertilizer. Harvest data, when the field was combined, how many bushels came off. Spraying, doing a herbicide, different type of herbicides, different fungicides where there may be a strip of no fungicides. And it collects all of that data, and it really shows if what we’re doing is paying for itself. So, that’s a cool thing.

(54:08)
Our drill is a pretty innovative thing, I guess. It’s called a SeedMaster Ultra SR, so it is a 60-foot, 750-bushel air cart, but it’s all one unit, and it’s 15-inch spacing. That might not mean much to you guys, but 15 inches between the rows is a big gap. And most of the farmers around here are on a 10-inch spacing with a 4-inch splitter boot, so then you’re only six inches between the rows. We’re 15 inches, and by doing this, we’re requiring less horsepower in our tractors, so in the long run, cheaper tractors. We can seed at the same speed as almost a planter. We’re doing six miles an hour at 60 feet, and only using 420 horsepower to do it.

(55:05)
So, that’s another big thing. By having that gap, I think we should keep going on this drill, so by having that 15-inch spacing, you’re having a lot less disease issues too because you have a lot more area between the plants. So, when we have those wet years or those high humidity nights, the crop dries a lot quicker first thing in the morning, so you’re not promoting that disease on your leafs. That’s a big thing.

(55:29)
Combines, our farm’s 3,500 acres and we run one combine. Combines right now are 800 to a million dollars, and we just look at it and we’re like, “Holy moly.” If we can do it with one, why not do it with one? And we have been doing it with one for the last four years, so that’s a big thing that we have done.

(55:54)
Yeah, so the technology, I guess… Everything is GPS. That’s been a given forever, so that just really cuts down on our overlap and spraying chemical and fertilization and pass to pass and less fuel and all that stuff. But as far as that, I mean innovation and technology, yeah, it really has to pay for itself for us to actually adapt it, and what we are doing now is working, and yeah, we’re happy with where we’re at.

Toby (56:24):
I was just going to say I have a whole new appreciation as we converse with the farmers.

Cheyenne (56:29):
Me too.

Toby (56:30):
Yeah, the amount of effort and energy and planning and history that goes into it, it gives me a whole new appreciation of every time I order a pint.

Cheyenne (56:38):
Seriously, yeah.

Wade (56:40):
100%. I take it for granted, I really do because we’ve been doing it for so long, and just every generation just keeps passing down the knowledge. So, yeah, it’s easy, I guess you could say in a way because it’s just second nature, but yeah, you really look back and think about it. Yeah, there is a shitload of stuff that goes into planning every year. There is, yeah.

Cheyenne (57:02):
That is so cool to hear all of that, and I never ever… I’m shocked that it… I guess I never estimated how much farm equipment would cost, but 800,000 to a million.

Wade (57:12):
Oh, my God.

Cheyenne (57:12):
It is crazy.

Wade (57:15):
Oh, like a sprayer. A sprayer now is $800-900,000. So, you got your main piece of equipment on the farm is almost a million dollars. Another main piece, a harvester, some farm… If you see some YouTube videos, they got 8, 9, 10 of these things rolling around. Well, that’s $8, 9, 10 million out there. A drill like a seeder or a planter, you’re anywhere from 600 to a million dollars for a planter. Tractors, 500 to a million dollars for a tractor.

(57:48)
So, yeah, you got a shed outside with all this equipment in it. You could have five, six, seven million dollars just in equipment sitting in a shed that you only use for a few months out of a 12-month year.

Toby (58:00):
Yeah.

Heather (58:01):
Yeah.

Toby (58:02):
That’s wild. My brother-in-law’s in ag credit out in New Mexico, shout-out to Scott Bailey. Anyways, he deals a lot with pecan trees or pecan farmers, and he was telling me stories about the amount of equipment, the high dollar that’s involved in that, and you think about it’s a lot of risk, right? And I think I might have asked a farmer about this too, but I’m sure the insurance business on that is pretty big, right? Because that’s a lot of money that you’re investing originally with the hopes that Mother Nature treats you well, right? There’s a lot of money and stuff tied in there.

Wade (58:40):
There is for sure. And so, that’s one of our biggest expenses besides your actual crop inputs. So, your fertilizer, your chemical, and things like your seed. Seed, chem, and fert are probably your biggest cost-breaker expenses throughout the season, but the next biggest one would probably be your insurance. So, just your basic crop insurance for a drought or hail or whatever it may be is… Our farm, right now, with a little extra hail coverage, is $45 an acre.

Toby (59:13):
What? Jeez.

Wade (59:14):
Yes, so our insurance bill every year is around $130-160,000 just for insurance every year.

Toby (59:25):
Wow.

Heather (59:26):
Holy (censored).

Wade (59:27):
Like you said though, we’re probably going to say one-and-a-half to $1.7 million of inputs at the year-end. So, you’re covering your butt for 160,000. So, it’s a check that is a no-brainer to write because, without it, you’re putting a lot of your risk in the hands of Mother Nature.

Toby (01:00:00):
You’re right, so it’s one of those-

Wade (01:00:01):
I couldn’t sleep at night without it, you know what I mean?

Toby (01:00:04):
That’s right. It’s one of those you complain… At least I complain about my homeowner’s insurance going up every year until the time you actually need to use it.

Wade (01:00:10):
Oh, yeah.

Toby (01:00:11):
Then you’re like, “Oh, God, I’m glad I had that,” yeah.

Wade (01:00:13):
But you look at the top of the page of our insurance report, and what it has paid out in the last so many years for what we’ve actually paid in, I mean it is 100% a no-brainer. Because of, like I said, it’s not so much anything else but the hail. Because we get so much hail, you usually, seven out of 10 years, always get your premium back.

Toby (01:00:38):
Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely, no-brainer.

Wade (01:00:41):
But I would much rather have that crop than a hailstorm go through.

Toby (01:00:48):
Sure, yeah.

Wade (01:00:49):
Yeah, yeah.

Toby (01:00:50):
Wade, tell us about… You mentioned Canada Malting and the relationship there, but tell us a little bit more about that, and how closely you work with our organization and the support between the two of us.

Wade (01:01:05):
Oh, they’re incredible. So, nothing against the other malting companies that we’ve worked with in the past, but Canada Malt has just made it so enjoyable to grow for them. I think the biggest thing, honestly, is the communication that we have between each other. There’s nothing better today than communication. And nothing is hidden, nothing is… It’s just everything is out in the open, out upfront, so I think the biggest thing would be the communication that we have between each other.

(01:01:38)
Working together, what new varieties to grow, which ones to keep growing. So, since we came on with Canada Malt, we’ve now introduced soft white wheat, which we’d never grown before. So, now we’re growing wheat, Canada malt for beer. The fall rye is also something that they came to us with to start growing, and that has taken off. So, I think, yeah, that relationship has just been amazing. It’s the only company that we grow for that I actually really like growing for, you know what I mean?

(01:02:15)
We grow for big-line companies and stuff, but it’s just not the same. Those places when you go to a Pioneer or a Richardson or something like that, or a Paterson [inaudible 01:02:25], just other big grain buyers out there, you’re just a number. You’re just another guy just rolling through the scale and dumping your grain and leaving. Whereas when you go to Canada Malt, they really have a lot of appreciation for what you do, and they really show that, so that’s what I love about growing for Canada Malt.

Heather (01:02:48):
Shout out Ryan Dodd, and the whole grain team.

Wade (01:02:52):
100%. Ryan Dodd has been amazing to work with, and Leanne and the whole crew, Megan, the whole crew, Taylor. The whole crew at Niobe here in Central Alberta, they’re amazing, amazing people. And yeah, they’re so thankful for what you do, and we’ve done a lot of tours with them with their brewers and stuff. And we also grow for Sapporo. So, we’re a big Sapporo grower for Canada Malt, and I actually had the head lady from Sapporo out last summer, and Ryan and I took her out flying. And we went and checked out all the Copeland barley crops, and it was amazing.

Toby (01:03:30):
You must be talking about a different Ryan Dodd than the one I know. You’re talking really nice about him.

Wade (01:03:35):
Yeah, that must be a different guy. I told him I’d talk nice about him.

Toby (01:03:38):
I’m just kidding.

Wade (01:03:38):
I told him I’d talk nice about him today, so-

Toby (01:03:41):
No, he is great, absolutely great.

Wade (01:03:44):
He’s a great guy. I mean I play hockey with him on Sundays in the winter, and yeah, just a solid guy, so yeah.

Heather (01:03:50):
It’s a community.

Toby (01:03:52):
It sure is.

Wade (01:03:53):
Yeah, 100%. It’s so good, yeah.

Toby (01:03:55):
Got a couple more questions. In a fight, who would win, you or your brother?

Wade (01:04:01):
Oh, shit. I’ve been asked this before too, and everybody’s like, “You guys must have fought when you were younger.” We never did, but I think he would win.

Toby (01:04:09):
Really?

Wade (01:04:10):
Yeah. No, we never fought ever, like never. I mean we argued, but we never fistfought. I’ve never thrown a punch at him ever and vice versa. Yeah, everybody thinks that’s so strange, but-

Heather (01:04:19):
I just fought my brother.

Wade (01:04:21):
Yeah. No, we’ve never fought, but he would 100% win. He’s got weight on me, he’s big-boned. He definitely could beat me, and now that he’s a dad too, he’s got that dad strength. He’d 100% win.

Cheyenne (01:04:38):
I love hosting episodes with Toby because you never know where we’re going to go.

Heather (01:04:41):
Yeah, we know exactly where you’re coming from.

Toby (01:04:46):
I’ve been told to calm it down many a time by Hailey, but it’s all right. No, yeah, I was just curious because I got two brothers as well, and we used to whoop each other’s (censored) every day.

Wade (01:04:56):
Yeah. No, I mean we were hockey players too growing up and stuff like that, and we never played on the same team, but yeah, no. No, we’ve never fought ever.

Toby (01:05:06):
Second question, and I’m putting you on the spot here. It sounds like you enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Wade (01:05:12):
I do, yeah.

Toby (01:05:13):
What’s your go-to beer? Do you have one you know right away?

Wade (01:05:17):
Oh, go-to beer would be our local brewery Dark Woods Morning Wood.

Toby (01:05:22):
What? What’d you say? Dark Wood’s Morning Wood? That’s greatness. There you go.

Wade (01:05:27):
Dark Woods Morning Wood. Yeah, they got some great names, but local brewery in Innisfail. Went to school with the guys. They’re twin brothers Nick and Scott Bell. Scott is the head brewer there. Man, they produce some amazing beer, amazing. Treetop, Morning Wood, Berkeley. Just incredible the beer that they’re producing now. So, that’s probably my go-to, to be honest right now. Great beer in Innisfail five minutes away. Yeah, awesome stuff.

Heather (01:06:03):
For anybody listening that doesn’t know that part of Alberta, every little, small town has a pretty amazing craft brewery in it.

Wade (01:06:11):
They do, yeah. It’s really exploded over the last seven years.

Heather (01:06:17):
Yeah, it’s awesome.

Wade (01:06:19):
Yeah, yeah.

Toby (01:06:20):
I’m getting thirsty.

Heather (01:06:23):
Me too.

Toby (01:06:23):
Wade, hey, thanks so much for coming on, and again, we really appreciate what you do every day and your family, and the support and the product that you give to Canada Malting. And appreciate you coming on, really educating the listeners and ourselves, actually, about the ins and outs of farming and what it takes to bring that product to our malting facilities in our organization, and ultimately, into the consumer’s glass. So, keep doing what you’re doing. It’s awesome, and really appreciate you coming on with us.

Wade (01:06:55):
Hey, absolutely. No, any time. I appreciate it, and everybody out there listening, keep drinking that beer because, at the end of the day, you’re supporting us too, right? So, yeah, just keep drinking, keep supporting those local small breweries because they use more barley than the big guys. Another big important thing as well to note.

Toby (01:07:13):
Absolutely.

Heather (01:07:14):
Couldn’t agree more. Thank you so much to our guests today: Jeff Gibson from Taishi Ag in Idaho, and Wade McAllister from Antler Valley Farms in Alberta. And as we approach the 2024 spring barley harvest, let’s raise a glass to all of our farmers and all of our producers out there, and share your appreciation for the ingredients that they make to make our craft beverages possible. So, thank you so much to all of our farmers out there for their hard work and dedication.

Cheyenne (01:07:42):
And we will be back in two weeks again with another fun episode. You can go ahead and like and subscribe to the BrewDeck Podcast on any podcast platform, so you don’t miss an episode.

Toby (01:07:54):
Cheers, peace out. Bye.

Heather (01:07:55):
Bye, everyone.