EPISODE S.6, E.3

[BARLEY & BOSS MOVES]

Heather (00:09):
Welcome back to another episode of the BrewDeck Podcast. And Happy Women’s History Month and International Women’s Day. I am your host, Heather, and I am joined by Abi. Hi, Abi.

Abi (00:20):
Hi.

Heather (00:21):
How’s it going?

Abi (00:22):
I’m doing well. I can’t believe it’s only Tuesday. But it’s fine, we’re making it through.

Heather (00:30):
I can’t believe it’s only March, right? Felt like it’s been about a year already. But Marches are Women’s History Month, and as is tradition here on the podcast, we make the boys take the day off and we talk about ourselves a whole bunch. So this year we wanted to take some time to appreciate some of the amazing women that make Country Malt Group, Canada Malting and Great Western Malting run smoothly, and run in general. So we’ve asked a few of those women to join us today to talk about their journey with CMG. We’re going to dive in really quick because we have a full house. But make sure everybody stays tuned at the end of the episode. We have a little special guest to chat about our Pink Boots Malts a little bit. So yeah, let’s get going.

Abi (01:16):
We’ve got some really great special guests here today. We’ve got Jamie, Dana, Alli, and Olena. So if you ladies just want to go into it and you want to tell us a little bit about yourselves. Just tell us your title at work, just how long you’ve been with Soufflet, the family of brands, and maybe a fun random fact about yourself.

Alli (01:40):
I’m Alli. I am a director of commercial sales. I’ve been with our company for just about 17 years now. Feels like a lifetime, but love it. Random fun fact. I guess I would say that I am a semi-professional curler in a past life. So I’ve competed in world and Canadian championships a handful of times. And that competitive instinct in me is here for that end, for the work side of things.

Heather (02:14):
And random fun fact about Alli, she also is my boss, so she has to put up with me on the daily. So sorry.

Dana (02:24):
I can go next. So my name is Dana Lukens. I am the Chief Transformation Officer and Head of Country Mall Group for Soufflet Malt. I’ve been here about three years, and a random fun fact is that I’m a twin.

Jamie (02:40):
You’ve had that fun fact built in for life, huh?

Dana (02:43):
Exactly. It’s probably my go-to, which is why I never get nervous when I’m put on the spot, because it’s a good one.

Jamie (02:53):
I can go next, I guess. I’m Jamie. I am the Production Planner at Great Western Malting’s Vancouver Plant. I have been with the company for eight years and I’ve had five different jobs here at Great Western, Vancouver, so I feel like I know this place pretty well. And I have a great fun fact for you guys. My fun fact is that Drew Carey has done an impression of me. He made fun of my laugh when I was in the audience of The Price is Right. And then I got to talk to him about my job, which was working here, and he said he was jealous. And he didn’t know that was an option when he was in high school. So Drew Carey’s jealous of us, guys.

Dana (03:33):
As he should be.

Alli (03:36):
That’s so cool.

Heather (03:36):
That is such a good fact.

Alli (03:38):
I think being on a game show is a life goal of mine.

Jamie (03:41):
But I was just in the audience.

Alli (03:43):
Doesn’t matter.

Heather (03:44):
Yes, I have a friend that won a car on The Price is Right, which is-

Alli (03:48):
Amazing.

Heather (03:49):
Yeah.

Jamie (03:49):
That is amazing.

Olena (03:53):
I guess it’s my turn. I am Olena Waddingham. I work as a grain elevator manager here in Canada Malting in Banff. I’ve been with the company for 15 years now, in my third role. Random fun fact. I guess I’m a beginner mountain climber. That would be fun, I hope, and safe.

Heather (04:16):
That’s cool.

Olena (04:18):
Yeah.

Heather (04:18):
Very cool.

Dana (04:18):
You’re in a good area for it too.

Olena (04:21):
Yes, I am.

Heather (04:21):
Yeah, Alberta has some of the best hiking and mountain climbing you’ll find in the world, for sure.

Olena (04:27):
Yes, very beautiful.

Heather (04:30):
So we can start again with Ali. Can you tell us how you got into working at Canada… I think you started with Canada Malting 15 years ago. How did that kind of fall into your lap? And maybe some of the different roles? I know you’ve had quite a few roles with the company as well. How you got to director.

Alli (04:52):
Right. So when you’re a lifer like me, you’ve been here a while, and you’ve been through many iterations of the company, which is really cool. I actually moved to Calgary to just get out of Winnipeg and try something new. I had family out there. I was finishing my degree to be a teacher. I planned to teach high school, and needed a job. So I signed up with a recruiting agency and they set me up with Canada Malting as the receptionist. So I started, really, as base level as you can get, with our company. Worked with that recruiting agency for a couple of months before Canada Malting signed me on for permanency. And from there, continued to work at the plant for about a year and a half before I moved on to the CMG side of things, the Country Malt Group side. Started kind of managing.

(05:48)
It’s funny to think back now, but I did everything from managing our two Canadian warehouses, from an inventory standpoint, from ordering standpoint, from an accounting standpoint, from an NC or Nonconformity report standpoint. So literally all the tiny bits and things to make CMG in Canada work, I was kind of standing behind. And it’s really an attribute to the industry, and our company, to see how much it’s grown in the 17 years that I’ve been around, to understand that those are now hundreds of people’s roles within our company. So really cool to see it from the grassroots to where it is now. I believe it’s about 2010, I was moved out to Ontario to become a territory sales manager. That was my first foray more so into the sales, and being out in front of customers side of thing. Realized that I really had a passion for that.

(06:49)
Just again, getting to see the industry grow, and be a small part of the success of it, was just really cool to me. Really fun. Learning, to me, that sales is really just finding ways to connect to people, finding those commonalities, and then trying to help them solve a need or solve a problem. And I am a problem solver at nature, so I think that came just really easily to me. From there, I got onto the management side and was able to create a team Canada, which is just a huge pride point for me. The fact that the industry grew large enough to have a entire team Canada, from the sales perspective, is really cool. And then also grab some people from the Northeast as well that fell under my managership.

(07:45)
So it’s been really awesome to just understand a little bit more about the American side of the business, and what’s important and difference, culturally, between the two countries, and what needs to happen for sales in different parts of the country, or the continent, I guess. And then yeah, just moved into the directorship as we kind of tried to merge bulk and bag sales, CMG, CMC, GWM. And have been rolling with that for I guess two years now. So that’s the long and short of my history here. Excited to see what’s next, and continue to grow.

Heather (08:23):
That’s 17 years. That’s a short 17 years-

Alli (08:26):
I tried to keep it as quick as possible. Definitely lost a few years somewhere.

Heather (08:32):
Who needs them? Dana, yeah, I’ll throw it over to you as well. How did you find yourself with us, Country Malt Group?

Dana (08:42):
Yeah, so I have a background in supply chains. I’ve been in supply chain most of my career. And so when I came over to Country Malt Group, it was really originally actually came over for Country Malt Group supply chain, to kind of centralize and get that off the ground. So didn’t have experience in the industry prior to, it was more because of looking at supply chain expertise. So I’ve kind of maneuvered around the org, to Ali’s point, when we merged Bag in Bulk, and was overseeing North America supply chain.

(09:18)
And then I think mostly because of my curiosity and question asking, they were like, “Well, we don’t have these answers, so why don’t you take the role of a transformation officer and go figure it out?” So kind of morphed into the transformation role, and it’s really around continuous improvement and business process, and that kind of thing. So yeah, definitely kind of moved around a lot, which has been amazing. And I think for this industry as well, just really has given me an opportunity to understand all facets of the industry in a pretty short period of time. So it’s been really great.

Abi (09:59):
And you were recently just made head of CMG as well, so it’s really amazing to have a woman in that position. And I don’t know, it’s very empowering and very cool to work for a company that has that. Jamie, how about you?

Jamie (10:17):
My first role in this industry was at a brewery. I started at a brewery that had built a really beautiful lab, but then didn’t have anybody to run it. So I kind of got to start there, and learn about brewing and cellaring, and all the things that make a brewery work. And then we moved to Vancouver, Washington. And what I was really looking for was a large manufacturing facility that was close to my house, and it just so happens Great Western Malting’s plant is adjacent to downtown Vancouver. So it’s like ideal working conditions, exactly what I was looking for. So I was really excited. And I started here as an operator, because that was the only job they had open at the time. And so I started as an operator for that summer before I went to the lab. And I worked in the lab, I’ve been in the Malt Innovation Center, and then I joined the management team as a production specialist, and now as the production planner. So that’s been my journey.

Heather (11:15):
Can you explain a little bit what the production planner does at the plant?

Jamie (11:18):
Yes. So I’m in charge of our inventory. So we have about 100 storage silos and about 35 different products that we’re managing here, because we’re a specialty malt plant. And so there’s definitely some interesting challenges with that. We have to know what to make and when, and we have to have all of our products pretty much available to fulfill orders all the time. And so there’s just a lot that goes into making sure we have the right product at the right time, and that the quality is good across the whole family of our brands. So that’s pretty much what I do every day. And it’s not very out in the plant, it’s definitely a behind the desk role. But I do come to work in the office. I really like having my ear to the ground, basically. Hear the other members of the team talk about what’s going on, what’s broken, what’s going great, those kinds of things.

Heather (12:19):
There’s a lot of moving parts to that, I would assume.

Jamie (12:23):
Yeah, most of our plants don’t have the production planner role like I do. It’s usually just the plant manager handles it. But because our site is complicated, the products we make are complicated, I have to validate, it is important that I’m here. It makes our quality better, that I am dedicated to making sure it’s great.

Heather (12:43):
Agreed.

Abi (12:44):
I can speak to that, for sure, as the product manager. I can definitely speak to the importance of Jamie and everything that she does, and all the questions that we ask, and all of our needs, it’s really wonderful to have her.

Heather (12:59):
Olena, how about you?

Olena (13:02):
Well, I’ve been in this grain industry for a good 25 years now. I started as a grain buyer back home in Ukraine, and kind of progressed in the role, from grain buyer to the expert manager. And then I moved to Canada in 2009 and got my first job with Canada Malt in Thunder Bay, doing supply chain and logistics. And it was lots of fun. The market was growing so rapidly. We worked with Alli a lot, as I was managing our warehouses and trans loading facilities. And then, yeah, I was finishing my MBA program, and the operations’ role came up as a supervisor, so I took that one. And a few years later I’m in Alberta managing the elevator, back to buying grain. Made a full circle.

Abi (13:59):
All the way back to the elevators.

Olena (14:00):
Yes, and it’s fun. I love working with people. It always was fun to be point of contact, first one, with farmers, so it’s great.

Abi (14:15):
I think that’s one of our big strengths within Canada Malting is having the elevator system and having that one-on-one contact with our producers, all year round. But definitely obviously during harvest it creates a really great relationship, and we love to have really great relationships with our farmers.

Olena (14:33):
And these are small communities, so we do a lot to work for the communities, to strengthen those relationships.

Abi (14:41):
I love going to the elevators.

Heather (14:44):
It’s a lot of fun to visit, for sure. So as women in the industry, what are some challenges that you faced, and how did you handle them? Anyone want to speak up first?

Abi (14:59):
This is a safe space.

Heather (15:00):
This is a conversation. It’s a tough thing to be a woman in the beer industry, and that’s no matter what capacity it is.

Abi (15:08):
Yeah, I think on all sides of our company in the corporate role, in the elevators, in the plants, in the sales role, we tend to be a minority all over the place.

Dana (15:20):
I can start. I’ve had actually some really interesting conversations as of late in light of what’s happening around us as well. And I think part of the challenge of being in an industry, or being in roles where you don’t have a lot of representation, is that you’re kind of singled out with how you react or how you act, and it makes you stand out. And it’s usually with a negative connotation as opposed to just being different. And if you think about it, if we had more representation, the behavior traits or characteristics would just be normal. It would just be part of our every day. And so I think for me, the challenge, and especially when you’re young and impressionable, and you’re trying to make sure that people understand your value, and that you do stand out in a positive light, I definitely found myself trying to conform, more so from a personality and just reaction and communication standpoint.

(16:27)
And as I’ve gotten older, I’m definitely like, “That doesn’t work for me, really.” Right? Everybody has their personality, and the older you get, the more self-aware you become and the more just confident and proud of who you are, and what’s brought you to where you are. And so I think, for me, that has been the continuing challenge, to remain just authentic to who I am, and know that it will land differently because of who I’m around. And that’s okay. Just to ensure that you just stay true to who you are, and just understanding that it is going to look different because you’re different, and that’s fine.

Alli (17:12):
I can jump in, in similar fashion. I think for a long time in my career in this industry, I was the only female in the room. I was the only female at that brewery we were knocking on the door at, trying to grab business. And I’m lucky I grew up with an older brother who, I was always trying to tag along, be with his group of friends. So I think it wasn’t necessarily an uncomfortable situation for me to be in, to be that single lone female. But that being said, I do feel like I’ve had to prepare better for those conversations, make sure I knew the ins and outs of that brewery, knew what they were going to be looking for.

(17:57)
So my prep work was probably two or three times the amount of time I actually spent with that brewer at that brewery, just making sure I had everything ready to go so I wasn’t laughed at, or just discounted overall when I walked into that brewery. So I think though the interesting part is coming into those situations and having that preparedness, it sure made everybody recognize you very quickly, and want to work with you very quickly. So a downside and upside on both ends. But definitely we’re seeing more women in the industry, and it’s nice to not be the only one in the room these days.

Abi (18:47):
Definitely. I can speak on that too. I have four brothers, so I was prepared for it as well. But it is wonderful, there are times when I’m at work and I’m in meetings and it’s more women, or all women, in a meeting, or where we all gather together, and it just makes my heart swell, because it’s wonderful to have that support. But I’m also making notes, “Be true to yourself and be prepared.” I like that.

Alli (19:10):
I will also say too, that when I started at our plant in 2008, I would say 95% of our front office, especially on the grain side, the grain input, the grain logistics, dealing with the wheat board that was still around at that time in Canada, those were all women. So there are some real pioneers to the start of this huge craft brewing movement. And I think without them handling a lot of those finer details, that we wouldn’t be where we are. And I think that is sometimes also forgotten about. Even in the early days, they’ve been there on the back end making sure things go as they should.

Heather (19:51):
I think we have some really great pictures. I feel like we posted them before, but of all the women in the lab back in the day. Yeah, love that. That’s awesome.

Jamie (20:03):
I have a soap box I can get on here.

Abi (20:05):
Please do.

Jamie (20:07):
I think women in industry, and I think having PPE that is sized properly for you, is really hard sometimes. If you’re a smaller woman, they do not make steel toe shoes in your size, or it can be hard to find them. They don’t make safety vests that are small enough-

Heather (20:29):
Or they’re pink.

Jamie (20:31):
Yeah, or they’re pink. That’s the only option.

Heather (20:31):
That’s the only only pair of women’s steel toe boots I could find, are pink. I like pink, but I don’t need the only thing to be-

Abi (20:37):
It doesn’t go with everything.

Heather (20:37):
Not with everything.

Jamie (20:41):
I don’t want it to define me here.

Heather (20:44):
No, I want that to be a choice.

Abi (20:46):
It’s funny, actually, I went with Jeff, our procurement director, to visit someone, and I’m not going to say who, but they left out PPE, and one was yellow and one was pink, and I made Jeff wear the pink.

Jamie (20:59):
That’s awesome.

Heather (21:01):
Sorry, not to derail you there, Jamie.

Jamie (21:03):
No, but yeah, no, it’s totally true. If you need a safety vest, you need it to be small enough that it’s not baggy, because then it’s actually dangerous. It’s a catch risk. And if you need a respirator, if you’re in a role like that, you need it to fit a smaller face, and these are things that you have to go out and search for them. And like many things, there’s a pink tax, those things are more expensive. So definitely an issue, I think.

Abi (21:30):
Hundred percent.

Jamie (21:31):
And I also really liked what Dana said about just owning who you are, and how your reactions might be, and being kind of confident that your perspective is valuable. Because I definitely feel this in myself a lot of times, that if I’m concerned that maybe I’m not going to say the right thing, then I’ll be too quiet, because I don’t want to say the wrong thing. And if you’re quiet, then you’re not going to advance nearly as fast. So invisibility.

Heather (22:00):
I feel that way a lot too, which is probably shocking. I host a podcast, but the most I’m talking to is six people. If we get on a big call and they ask for people’s opinions, and I definitely have one, because I have a lot of opinions, but I get very, very nervous to speak on that. And I’ll usually just be quiet versus speaking up about things. But I really appreciate the way that you said that, Dana. And I’ve never really thought about that before, just because my reaction’s different than the men on the team, it doesn’t make it wrong.

Dana (22:30):
Yeah. And I think it such a shame though too, because if you hear what Ali was talking about, just our default baseline of having to be over-prepared and making sure that you’re always on your game. It’s even more of a reason that we should be speaking up, because we have had to hustle. You have to hustle, you just do. It’s just the reality. So you’re even more equipped to have a great value add opinion and comments, and just perspective. And to your point, and I can really understand and relate to that, it’s just we tend to sit back and let somebody speak first, but we shouldn’t.

Jamie (23:11):
If we’re not normalizing it, then, when we have a bad day, because everyone’s human, it will just be that much more held against you. If you are just normally prepared, not extra prepared, then all of a sudden you’re taking a loss there.

Abi (23:30):
Yeah, yeah.

Olena (23:34):
I always found it to be challenging to try to balance your way of thinking and your approach to handle things when you’re in a male-dominated environment, when it’s just you, and everyone else seems to be on the same page. And because you are the only woman in the room and you have a different opinion and different idea, and it makes it rather difficult to advocate for it. So it is representation, right?

Abi (24:03):
Yeah. You’re seen as difficult and not helpful, or your opinion isn’t valuable. It’s hard, but I think, like Dana said, the confidence that you have behind you, and that you really do know your stuff and whatnot, it’s hard, but we are valuable, for sure.

Heather (24:26):
All that being said, how do you think those experiences have helped you want to advocate for underrepresented individuals in our industry? I

Alli (24:39):
I can jump in here. There’s one keyword that I keep hearing from, still, women in the industry, that just kind of drives me nuts a little bit, and it’s imposter syndrome. And I think a lot of us can all sit here and look at each other and talk about the fact that we’ve all felt it before. And I look at my career with us, and see where I started and where I am now, and how can somebody that was going to be a teacher actually be in this director role at this hundred million dollars company? And no, no, I think that’s something we need to get rid of from our vocabulary. I think we’ve worked hard to be here. As Dana said, we’ve hustled, we’ve prepared, we’ve learned, we’ve jumped at every educational opportunity that we’ve been handed, or created ourselves. So I think that’s kind of the advice, and just one of those terms that I really just would love to see us get rid of. That’s my soap box.

Abi (25:44):
That’s one thing that I actually just had a conversation with a couple women brewers on, I think looking back. Looking back, like what we just did. You’re 17 years of all these different things that you’ve done. And there are times where I’m like, “How am I even here? Why am I even here?” And I actually posted a photo of me holding a grain bag from when I was home brewing, 13 years ago. And I was holding a grain bag, and now I get to be the product manager for this amazing company, and I work with Jamie to produce amazing malts. It’s so cool to look back at the journey. And I think that also you realize how much you deserve the seat at the table too. And so I agree, the imposter syndrome, it’s got to go. It’s just, no.

Heather (26:35):
We worked really hard to be here, so we deserve to be here.

Dana (26:40):
And it does creep in, generally in the rough times. And I just think it’s really important. And I love this, and I love the things that the company’s doing to bring women together, but you got to find your people and make sure that you have a sounding board when you’re questioning yourself. Because whether it’s internal, whether it’s external, everybody knows who they can really go to when you need somebody to lean on. And I think, and I’ll speak for myself, I pride myself on my independence and being able to muscle through whatever, but you need each other. You think about people navigating life, it takes a village. That’s a saying for a reason. And I think for us, we just don’t have that everywhere we look. And so I have found it really important to latch on to those people that I know I can turn to when sometimes you just need a hype person.

(27:43)
You just need someone to remind you that you’re doing it right. You got it right, look at you. And sometimes you really just need that. And we don’t innately have that because of our work circumstances. I really see around me that people have that in their day-to-day, just because of the networking aspect of being surrounded by a peer group that’s like you, right? And we don’t always have that. And I think it’s just important for us to remember, you don’t always have to take it all on yourself. And sometimes you just need that hype person to remind you exactly what Ali and Abi were saying of, you’ve earned it, you’ve gotten here for a reason, this is because of your blood, sweat and tears, and go own it. And that’s all you need sometimes.

Heather (28:34):
Absolutely. I’ll shout out Ali for that, for me.

Dana (28:37):
Thanks, Ali.

Alli (28:39):
Well, I think a lot of this situation is different too because so many of us work remotely. We’re not going into an office to even find those maybe handful of people that are the females that are doing really great things. You don’t get to see it. It’s not tangible. So sometimes you forget to make that effort, or be looking for that effort. And nobody actually knows you’re looking for it because you’re all on teams. So I think that’s a great call out, and probably something we can do more of, knowing that we do work remotely often, and we don’t see each other enough.

Heather (29:11):
Yeah, I always feel so good. I did the Artisan [inaudible 00:29:14] conference a couple of weeks ago. I was in Calgary and I got to hang out with Justine. She’s been on the podcast before, and I knew her before we worked at Canada Malting together. So getting to spend a week with her was just so joyous. I’m like, “Oh, God, I miss this.” We used to sit in a cubicle beside each other when I worked at that office, and I miss having that constant connection with her. So it’s great.

Abi (29:35):
It is healing. She can just be there and she’s healing.

Heather (29:39):
And I say it, but we don’t text each other 25 times a day. I don’t talk every single day. But yeah, it’s different when you don’t get to be in the car with her, and when you’re getting a drink together at the end of the day, you miss that. Every one of us is in, we’re in different countries, and none of us is in the same city. So I don’t even think anyone’s in the same state at this point in time, or province, so we’re all over the place.

Abi (30:04):
Any other advice? Any other things that you would pass down to younger generations of underrepresented?

Dana (30:15):
I would say keep fighting the good fight. Because I have, through the course of my career, I’ve been really disappointed along the way, but I’ve also seen a lot of great changes and momentum around people wanting that change, including in our male counterparts. And so I will be honest, it’s disappointing a lot, still. And I think that that’s hard, and you kind of feel defeated. But I have gotten some really great opportunities because of women in my network, that we have to all keep doing that. That’s how you exponentially spread. The ability for us to really break these barriers is to continue to advocate for each other, make sure we’re talking about each other in the rooms, and really just helping to develop and lift each other up. That is what networking is, and we can do that.

(31:16)
That is something we can do every day and continue to foster with our company, with our industry, in our homes, however we can get out there. And I think that is what’s infectious, and again, really easy to lose sight of when you’re having a bad day, or you’re still on the receiving end of the things that shouldn’t be happening still. But I do think there has been momentum, if I take a step back and a deep breath, that there really has been momentum and change. And the fact that we’re having these kind of conversations on a podcast in this industry, and you guys are able to pull this together and kind of put this out there, that is way different than what it would’ve been 10, 15, 20 years ago. So even that in itself is a great example of how far we’ve come, though we still have quite a long way to go. So I try to stay encouraged by looking at the big picture, at the very least.

Olena (32:18):
Yeah, I would agree with Dana. Find your people. Make sure you have people that support you, encourage you, and don’t forget to invest in yourself. Make sure you take those courses or whatever opportunity, workshops, whatever you can get, and just keep growing.

Heather (32:37):
Such a good one, I love that.

Dana (32:40):
Yeah, definitely.

Abi (32:44):
Well, speaking about the future and the big picture, what’s next? What are you doing next? What are your goals?

Olena (32:50):
I would say about myself that I think this is the first time in my career where I do not have an ambition to move up.

Heather (33:01):
That’s not a bad thing, I don’t think.

Olena (33:03):
I have a young child and my work-life balance, and being comfortable in my role, is just the best match for me right now. And yeah, that’s kind of where I am, on the professional level.

Heather (33:21):
I love that.

Abi (33:21):
Well, and this can be professional, this can be personal growth as well too. What are your goals? What do you want to do to invest in yourself?

Olena (33:31):
Well, I am thinking maybe in a couple of years I would go and get the PhD. Maybe, maybe not. But that’s what I’m thinking right now. And also, and I’m a runner, so I am going to run an ultra marathon this year, which is a lot to train.

Heather (33:58):
I think you need some work-life balance if you’re going to train for that.

Abi (33:59):
That’s huge.

Olena (34:03):
I do. And I’m also a volunteer firefighter, so that takes a lot of time and energy, and so those are my goals. Marathon and fire.

Alli (34:12):
I feel lazy over here.

Heather (34:19):
I was just going to try and make it through the day, but I’ll make a different list.

Olena (34:25):
Yeah, that’s where I am at.

Heather (34:26):
Amazing.

Alli (34:29):
I can jump in and say I’m really interested to see where our industry is going, overall. It is changing. We’ve seen this big boom. People’s drinking habits are changing and I think there’s just a lot of, what’s next, in beverages overall, alcohol overall. So I think just trying to help be a part of that next phase of this wonderful ride we’re on, is really just exciting to me. It’s less clear cut, I would say, than it’s ever been too. But I find that very exciting. I don’t mind the quick pace of trying to figure out what our next steps are, and then probably having to pivot three or four times. I think I’m good with that. I enjoy managing through that too. So I’d say that’s another big part for me, or big thing, I want to continue on developing the people that I get to work with every day.

(35:27)
I want to see them very successful and happy with the careers that they’re building themselves. So I find that really just fulfilling and exciting on the work front. And then, I mean, it’s super cliche, but I want to keep traveling. From the work answer, you can tell I can’t sit still. So there’s so much of the world to see, I am blessed to be able to do it from a personal and beer perspective. So just getting to see more, understand other cultures, eat great food. That’s on my list.

Heather (36:02):
What’s next on the list for places for you to go?

Alli (36:06):
I want to do the South Pacific real bad. I’ve also been watching Below Deck, in the Seychelles, so that looks pretty cool.

Heather (36:15):
Below Deck has that effect.

Alli (36:18):
I’m a warm weather person, the hotter the better. So get me to see all the tropical islands. Dana, I know, went on a safari a couple years ago. And yes, so I’m super jealous and I need to. That’s on the list.

Dana (36:33):
Highly recommend. Big list.

Jamie (36:37):
What’s next? Olena, I totally understand your feeling. I’ve got a small child too, so I’ve really enjoyed kind of career plateau the last couple of years, because at home is so crazy. But she’s two now, so it’s about time for another advancement. That’s what I feel. So I’m looking to expand myself beyond the confines of Vancouver plant. And I really enjoyed my planning job. So I’ve noticed that it seems to really line up with things I enjoy and strengths that I have. And so I’m working on getting a certificate in inventory and planning management, so try to legitimize a lot of the things I’ve learned. And that’s my plan. And we’re talking about traveling. I’m really excited. We’re going to Japan in April, so we’re going to endeavor an international toddler traveling. We’ll see how it goes.

Heather (37:36):
Good luck.

Dana (37:41):
Yeah, I guess I’m up. I don’t know. I’m definitely at a place where I also, it’s not about the role or the climb or the rat race, so to speak, anymore. I’m really seeking out impact, and how to have impact and be value add, and really influence progress. And I think progress, really, in every sense of the word. A lot of what we talked about today, I have a lot of passion for, just because again, I just see how far we have to go still. But also, I think as we’ve all worked hard and gotten to a level of experience, you just want to use it. And so where can you really bring that and have it be valuable? And so I don’t have a good answer, professionally, but I think a lot of what you guys have talked about here on this podcast, around balance.

(38:41)
And just, there’s a whole big world out there, so much I haven’t seen either. And so I love to travel and to just experience, learn new things, try new food. I love food. Drink some good beer, wine. I think it’s just the basic things. I don’t know, as I’ve gotten older, it’s just you kind of go back to what’s the basics and the fundamentals of happiness. And as cliche as that sounds, I think that’s really what I’m after now.

Heather (39:09):
A good drink with a good friend and good conversation, and good food, that’s all you need.

Dana (39:14):
That’s right.

Heather (39:16):
It’s not a lot. It’s great. Just good wine.

Dana (39:18):
Yes.

Heather (39:22):
So last question for everybody, what advice would you give your younger self?

Alli (39:28):
I would say just don’t be afraid to take those jumps, take those opportunities. You can create so many yourself. Sometimes they’re given to you, and you just have to jump in head first and see where it takes you. You’re going to get a learning experience out of it, win, lose, or draw. So I would’ve probably taken a few more opportunities that I maybe was a little shy to, or a little nervous about.

Olena (39:54):
Oh, I agree. I would think I should have been more confident 20 years ago.

Heather (40:01):
I think we could tell all 20-year-old women, be a bit more confident.

Olena (40:05):
Yeah, definitely.

Alli (40:06):
You’re worth it.

Jamie (40:07):
Yeah, that’s true. You got to say what you want, say what you want. And if you don’t know, that’s okay too.

Dana (40:14):
I think I agree with everything that was said. I would say the same. It’s just, go for it, because the worst that can happen is just not as catastrophic as you think. And I’ve learned so much more from the things that didn’t go well, and that sticks with me probably more than the things that have. So I think, yeah, just go for it. And remember to look around as you do it, because there’s so many things you can learn from other people, and there’s so many great things out there. I think I was very laser focused on what I thought success was. And I’m the kid that did not really have so much fun in college, because I was so focused on grades and all this stuff, and so I regret that. Because I did not have as much fun as, sounds like, so many people did in their college years. But I would say just to relax a little bit and enjoy the ride.

Jamie (41:07):
I think advice for myself, that I still need to take, would be the value you can get from a professional organization or a trade group. Because there are so many jobs associated with a business, so many crazy facets of how things work, that you don’t know about sometimes. And so it can be hard to know what job you want, if you don’t know what jobs are out there. So you got to get out there and meet people and learn about the different jobs that can be options, and think about what might be good for you.

Heather (41:42):
And that was a big reason we wanted to do this podcast, and why we asked who we asked, to come on, because we all have different backgrounds. We all work in very different facets of this industry, and of this company. And there’s so many things to be done in this industry, and it’s really important for people to realize what is out there.

Dana (42:00):
Absolutely, and I think it’s a really interesting point. Because I agree, I didn’t know that there were these supply chain jobs or these operations jobs. You think about how you get into what your path is, a lot of it’s like, “Oh, my dad did this.” Or, “My brother did this.” And I think it’s, for young girls and young women, they’re like, “Oh, yeah, my teachers are women. My PAs are…” Right? It’s kind of the traditional things that they see and they can see themselves in, because that’s what the experience is. I think that’s also part of what we need, to get out there. We need to get out working with kids and introducing our jobs so that it can just be on their radar of aspiration, or curiosity, at the very least. So I think that’s a really good point, yeah.

Heather (43:00):
Yeah. Representation really does matter. It really, really does. It’s hard to see yourself in an industry where you don’t see anybody that looks like you.

Dana (43:07):
Definitely.

Jamie (43:09):
Yes. And when I’m thinking back, I knew that I liked the idea of manufacturing on a large scale when I was 7, and I went to Bring Your Daughter to Work day. And it’s such a strange thing that a manufacturing plant, and that I would enjoy that. That’s crazy. And I didn’t even recognize that I had that feeling until reflecting much later. But yeah, I went to Bring Your Daughter to Work day and I was like, “Yes, this is cool. I want to work in manufacturing and I want to be at a processing facility.”

Heather (43:40):
Wild. So awesome. Awesome. Thank you all so much for taking time out of your day. I know we are all insanely busy, as we always will be, I hope, for this industry. So I really, really appreciate it. And it was great to get to sit down and chat with everybody. And I hope we get to get continue this conversation further, in the future.

Dana (44:03):
Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

Jamie (44:05):
Thank you, guys. It was fun.

Heather (44:07):
Everybody listening, stay tuned. We’re going to jump over and take a listen to Brad, from Jackknife Brewing, in Kelowna, as he chats about why he switched over to the Pink Boots Malt as his base malt to help raise money for the Pink Boots Society of Canada. So take a listen to that, and we will talk to everybody soon.

(44:26)
We are now joined by my good friend, Brad, from Jackknife Brewing, in Kelowna, BC. Hi, Brad, how are you doing?

Brad (44:33):
Good. How’s it going? Thanks for coming to Dungeon.

Heather (44:35):
I love it here. It’s my third collab that we’ve done together.

Brad (44:39):
Yeah, yeah, for real. It’s great.

Heather (44:40):
Yeah, good times. So I wanted to jump in and talk a little bit about the Pink Boots Malt. But before we do that, I want you to tell me a little bit about yourself, how you got into brewing, and then a little bit about Jackknife itself.

Brad (44:54):
Yeah, Brad Tomlinson here at Jackknife Brewing, in Kelowna, BC, Canada. We opened this spot five years ago, almost like to the date. Spring 2020, right. Perfect timing. Started brewing in 2016 with the fine folks next door at Kettle River Brewing, and then met up with Damien and my buddy Ian, and built this place. So we’ve been going ever since. It’s great.

Heather (45:23):
Can you tell us what Damien does here?

Brad (45:24):
Damo is our resident pizza wizard.

Heather (45:27):
Can you tell us who Damien’s dad is?

Brad (45:29):
Damien’s dad is the Don Moore.

Heather (45:33):
Don has been on this podcast before. Awesome. So you have recently made a switch to utilizing the new Pink Boots Malt, I guess we’re about a year old, I guess, with the Pink Boots Malt now, as your base malt for all of your beers. How did you first hear about the Pink Boots Malt?

Brad (45:52):
I first heard about it through you.

Heather (45:54):
I’m amazing at my job, aren’t I?

Brad (45:56):
Yeah, so good. Yeah, I heard about from you. I kind of just jumped right on board as soon as you kind of talked about it, and told me about how it was made in the plant back east. Don vouched for it too, which was kind of a bonus. I don’t know. I rolled it kind of straight into the program. I think I got six bags, or something, for the start and then I dropped Superior Pilsen and just threw it straight into my day to day.

Heather (46:26):
What can you tell us about the malt? Why do you like using it as your base malt, outside of the Pink Boots Society stuff?

Brad (46:33):
Yeah, I like it. It’s kind of like a good replacement for a malt that kind of falls, I put it in my brain as something that falls in the middle of a pale and a pils. It’s super crispy, it has really nice sweetness. It just really works with a lot of styles. Not like I brew styles, but…

Heather (46:55):
You might have to explain that.

Brad (46:59):
Yeah, so everything here brewed in my weird little beer dungeon is all like Kveik based beers. We brew Norwegian style beers with a Pacific Northwest flavor profile. So it’s kind of like this weird smash-up of flavors and foraged ingredients that you would see in two different continents.

Heather (47:22):
That’s really cool. I love that you actually go and forage your own ingredients. That’s pretty amazing. Why is it important to you to support the Pink Boots Society?

Brad (47:31):
Yeah, it’s a great organization. In Canada, it seems like it’s kind of like being underfunded. And then as soon as I heard about Pink Boots giving money back to Canadian chapters, I was pretty stoked about that. So it was one more reason to jump on board. It’s good to support an organization that also puts women first in an industry that’s very predominantly white beardy dudes. It’s kind of boring. And I think there’s more palettes out there, and there’s more perspectives on beer, and the world that can get rolled into beer, which is sick.

Heather (48:20):
I will second that. So we are brewing our Pink Boots brew today with members of the Jackknife team. Can you tell us what we’re brewing? Tell the people. I guess I’m here.

Brad (48:31):
Yeah. Yeah. We’re brewing a kind of borderline session IPA, with a bunch of Pink Boots Malt as our base, and some oat malt from Canada Malting. And a little bit of GNL, to Heather’s disdain, but…

Heather (48:49):
It’s fine.

Brad (48:51):
We got some 10/19 in there, some nectaron, a little bit of Sladek. It should be good. It’s tasty. I think we’re going to probably send something fruity in there, for a Kveik blend. I got a couple house blended Kveiks that we use for like IPA and hoppy stuff, so it should be pretty rad. It’s a beer that we brew every year, with all the ladies from the team, and every lady kind of adjacent. Stoked that you two are here from Country Malt today too. It’s called Resting Witch Face, so we use the same name. We usually donate a portion of the proceeds to a local women’s charity.

Heather (49:33):
Amazing. Last but not least, you were just on a really cool little collab road trip. Anybody that knows Brad, Brad loves to do collabs, and he did a little cool road trip down through the US. So tell us about the breweries that you worked with, and if you can give us some insight on some of the stuff that you made.

Brad (49:50):
Yeah, so kind of put a giant road trip together, to hang out with some friends from Washington, Oregon, California. Drove down, visited JT and crew at Outskirts Brewing in Yakima. We made a cold IPA. I want to say we used some 10/19, but I’m not exactly sure. I don’t remember. It was a while ago. It was like three weeks ago. I’ve been driving like 8,000 kilometers over the past three weeks, so I’m a little foggy.

Heather (50:31):
Fair.

Brad (50:31):
Then I cruised down to June Lake Brewing, and spent the week there with those guys. We brewed like an XPA. We used a bunch of Mosaic DynaBoost, and some 10/19 as well. Like a shit ton of 10/19.

Heather (50:44):
My new favorite house.

Brad (50:45):
Super cool. You can open that bag and you can smell it across the room. It’s so wild. Got some snowboarding in with those dudes. Shout out to Ryan at June Lake, and the crew. So sick. From there, drove all the way down to LA, and got to cruise around and visit all those dudes down there. Tried to line up a collab with the ISM folks, but they were pretty busy with making some World Cup beers, so we just got to crush some beers instead, which was amazing.

(51:15)
Where else did I end up? After that, kind of hung out in LA for a week, and then went down to Black Plague and hung out with Jordan and Eric. We brewed another IPA down there too. It’s like an IPA tour.

Heather (51:32):
You went down West Coast and then-

Brad (51:32):
They just got crispier and crispier as I went south. And then from there I sprinted way up to Seattle, and then hung out with Derek and Colette at Bizarre. And finally rolled into a place that had some barrels, and they had some barrel fermentation, and I felt more at home there. It was pretty great. And we brewed kind of like a saison base. And I brought a Kveik pitch, and they brought a couple barrels that were ex-funky projects. So we got a staggered release coming in Seattle in the next three and six months.

Heather (52:08):
That’s super fun. Can you tell me what it’s like to travel with yeast? I just always kind of wondered. I got questioned about traveling with hops the other day, from a customer, and I’m just crossing the border with it. Any issues at the border when you cross with yeast?

Brad (52:22):
Yeah. Coming down, it was pretty chill. I’ve traveled with yeast straight from Norway, on my person, on the plane, which was kind of sketch. It looked like a whole assortment of drugs, in a little pouch, that I was carrying. But nobody blinked an eye. So it stresses you out going in, but actually no one cares.

Heather (52:44):
Fair.

Brad (52:44):
Yeah.

Heather (52:44):
Fair. Well, awesome, Brad, thank you for letting us all come in and play in the dungeon today. And thank you for supporting the Pink Boots Society. We really appreciate you.

Brad (52:53):
Cool. Thanks so much. Cheers.